Horowitz joins Abrams for first live interview

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California attorney Daniel Horowitz joined MSNBC's Dan Abrams on Wednesday's 'Abrams Report' for his first live television interview since finding his wife, Pamela Vitale, murdered in their home on Saturday evening. 

Horowitz, a well-known criminal defense attorney, has appeared many times as a guest commentator on the 'Abrams Report.'

Abrams and Horowitz discussed a wide range of issues, and Horowitz was given the opportunity to respond to questions some have been asking about him as well. 

To read an excerpt of their conversation, continue to the text below. To watch a video clip of the interview, click on the "Launch" button to the right.

DAN ABRAMS: Daniel, thanks a lot for coming on the program.  I'm so sorry it has to be under these circumstances.  You and I have spoken a couple of times since this happened and I know how hard this is for you to talk about, so I appreciate it.  How are you holding up? 

DANIEL HOROWITZ:  I guess you can see, Dan.  It's just -- I don't know how I'm holding up.  I don't know -- it's -- I don't know how to answer that. 

ABRAMS:  In the few moments before the show, I saw that you were in tears for a moment and it seems from the times I talk to you that it ranges and at times completely break down to other times thinking about moving forward with the investigation and getting this case solved. 

HOROWITZ:  What you were seeing on the monitor before we went on is that one of Pamela's closest dearest friends called me and we were just talking about Pamela and up to that, I was feeling the best I had felt in a while because I had been through our house that we were building.

I felt alive for the first time since Saturday and then when I talked to her friend, I felt like the love that her friend had and it just made me cry and it's sort of like you can't predict when you're in this state that I'm in, you can't predict why you're feeling something or what -- you can't control your emotions.  So I don't know from second to second, too much when I'm going to you know be one way or the other. 

ABRAMS:  You went back to the house today for the first time.  How was that? 

HOROWITZ:  Yes.  Well I went back once with the police just to walk through it to see if I had any insights into what had gone on there that would be known only to me.  And that was hard but I had the police officers with me.  Today I went back with my family and the police had taken out the most horrific parts of the scene, the parts that really were upsetting, you know, just pure -- they took that away. 

So it was a beautiful day and I went into our bedroom and you know the bed just has a sense of the person or the people who were there.  And for me, it was a nice feeling to be with her.  So it's like there's horror, but I can never escape that and then there's the moments where I feel her and then there's all these questions and functioning and you got to do arraignments and other people's feelings and you just don't really know where you're at.  And I think anybody who's been through this can just tell you there's no formula for it. 

ABRAMS:  Daniel, before we talk about the investigation, tell me about your relationship with Pamela. 

HOROWITZ:  I've said this so many times but it's the only way to sum it up.  She was the love of my life.  I found the person who I loved my whole life and I hoped -- and she told me, that I was the love of her life.  She said it all the time.  And I know I was, but I just always felt she was too good for me.  She's too beautiful, too wonderful, too kind. 

But bottom line is when you really come down to it is we were going to grow old together and be happy and they show all these pictures of that house and the property constantly again and again on TV.  We lived in that mobile home, Dan, for 10 years together and I was just as happy then just to be with her as I would have been, you know, my whole life if she just would have been with me. 

ABRAMS:  Let me just give you a chance to settle for a moment.  Let me ask you a question about the night before all of this happened.  What did you guys do on this Friday night before Pamela was murdered? 

HOROWITZ:  You know, Dan, it's -- I could logic it out, I can barely remember it.  I assume we were doing the Susan Polk trial.  All I remember and then I did TV on one or two shows that night, I think.  Yes.  And then I came home and we were just sitting together, and we got a phone call from one of the hosts and then I guess at some point we want to sleep. 

Probably, you know a lot -- most of what we would do at home, is we'd be so tired, we'd sit and watch your show, we'd watch whatever shows.  You know our friends were hosting or on, and talk about it or talk about her day or my cases because she worked with me, so just nice, just being together.

ABRAMS:  You were together that night, you went to bed, you woke up in the morning and then what? 

HOROWITZ:  I looked at her.  I woke up earlier.  Looked at her, just looked at her.  She made my breakfast -- a little different -- I made my coffee and then went to breakfast with Bob Massi, instead of staying around the house because I had a breakfast meeting with him.  We had a case together. 

And then I had a meeting on Polk with my team.  Did that and then shopping, this and that and came home and she really shouldn't have even been home.  She should have been at the ballet and then she was home. 

ABRAMS:  If you can, tell me what you can about arriving at the scene that night. 

HOROWITZ:  OK.  I remember that I called her a few times during the day and she hadn't responded, which maybe that's happened 100 times before.  So it's doesn't mean that you feel good about my, you know your wife not responding.  You know how that is.  You have funny feelings, but it always turns out OK.  So when I arrived though and I came down the hill, and her car was there, that wasn't a good feeling. 

But I just said OK, well maybe she's not going to dinner ... she's not going to dinner.  I'm losing track.  I just saw her car and I'm just going maybe she wasn't going to dinner with her friend for the ballet, so she's home still, but it didn't feel good.  But I just went to the door and I saw a smear on it, which I knew was bad, but I didn't know it in my brain. 

A lot of what you're seeing and what's going on is like your body knows first and your brain knows second, and then I found her there and then I -- you know.  I'm going to tell you something, Dan.  I've relived this every few minutes constantly, just to figure out what happened and also just because it's my last moments with her even in the state she was in and then I see the pictures.  I don't know what to say anymore.

ABRAMS:  When you arrived there, you told me before that you touched her body.  That you felt her pulse, et cetera, and you spoke some words to her. 

HOROWITZ:  When she was lying there, even though I knew that she was dead, I touched her on the temple to see if she was alive and you know called 911 on the phone and then went back to her and then I just told her -- I said a million things.  I screamed, I cried, and I told her I loved her, and I'm trying to avoid just -- I don't want to cry anymore.  I've just cried out to tell you the truth.

But basically, for me lying -- when she was lying there, she was still Pamela and I could look at her and I could love her, and I could feel the love in her, and I wasn't fooling myself about what was going on, but I was just focused in on her.  ... And sometimes I would just get into pain.

ABRAMS:  You had said that it was clear to you that the killer or killers had cleaned up the crime scene.  Why do you believe that?

HOROWITZ:  Well, Dan, I don't want to go into any details of the investigation because what's going to happen now is there's a mix of what I saw at the time and a mix of what I've learned and my primary focus -- I don't have too many functions in life right now, is to take care of my family, you know to take care of myself and not to interfere with this investigation by saying things on TV that they don't want out. 

So all I can tell you is that what I saw was that she fought like hell and really fought like hell and I think she almost won and I know my wife.  I know Pamela would never ever you know give up.  She would fight to the end, Dan.  No one could scare her.  She loved life and I think that person almost lost.  I mean I'm assuming it's a man.  I don't know.  But I think she almost beat him.

ABRAMS:  So you're convinced that the killer would have some sort of wounds on him. 

HOROWITZ:  Well, either wounds or he struck with a weapon repeatedly so that she didn't have a chance to wound him, but she didn't go down and she didn't give up, Dan.  I could see that.  Look, I know what a crime scene looks like.  It's what I've done for a living and I'm telling you that Pamela fought like hell and that person who attacked her, I bet he feared that he was going to lose.  She fought like hell.  ... But he had a weapon and I'm sure she didn't. 

ABRAMS:  And do you say that in part based on defensive wounds, et cetera, that you recognized.

HOROWITZ:  Again, I've heard that rumor about defensive wounds, Dan and I don't know one way or the other if there were.  I didn't touch her other than what I just told you.  Touched her twice on the neck, so I didn't look or move her to find out what was there.  I just could tell by how the scene was, based upon my knowledge of what I do and knowing Pamela and how strong she was and how brave she was, I know she might have been scared a little at the beginning but that immediately, that would have turned into a strength and a fury, and she would have been fighting for everything and I know that's what happened, Dan. 

ABRAMS:  And in part, that's because the scene, the TV was moved and other items weren't in their ordinary place, right? 

HOROWITZ:  Right.  You could just see how the battle went back and forth and what objects were moved.  And again, these are some things even that I figured out I don't want to say on TV, so that the police don't have their hands tipped, but I could see things moved in certain ways that I know how the bodies were when they were fighting.  You could see the splatters of blood, but you could just see that she's moving around, that she is not giving up. 

And of course it doesn't make much difference if she lost in the end, but I still know my wife and I know for whatever comfort it brings to the people who love her, you know, she fought like hell.  Nobody just you know got away with this without being frightened that she was going to win and if I was there she -- I could have taken care of her but she almost took care of herself, Dan.

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