An interview with Natan Saransky

David Gregory: Nine days after the presidential election you were in Washington, invited to the White House to meet the president to talk about your book. What did you talk about?

Natan Sharansky: We talked about the book of ideas, that freedom is for everybody, that all the people in the world deserve and want to live in freedom, and that… has a very important role to play by encouraging, supporting freedom, by speaking straight to the dissidents.

And I was very impressed by the determination of the president who said, "Now, I have a very strong mandate" - it was just some days after the victory, he was rather happy with it. He said, "And I'm going to the world the next four years exactly to do this, to promote security through freedom and democracy."

And then he said, "Okay, it's very interesting theory which I read in your book, but how then you apply?" He started mentioning different parts of the world, how we apply it. That was the discussion.

Gregory: Did he want your advice?

Sharansky: Uh, I think he wanted to hear my opinion. I think maybe sometimes he feels himself rather lonely in following his convictions and his ideas, and I think it was important for him to find out that he's not the only dissident in this world.

Gregory: You call him a dissident in the book?

Sharansky: No, at the end of the conversation I told him, "Mr. President, now I see that you are a very well dissident because politicians look at the polls and they behave in small ways in accordance to the polls."

Dissidents are loyal to the idea and go ahead whatever happens. So I see, I'm very happy to see your determination and conviction, but I want to warn you that dissidents, we're often alone, and sometimes it's very difficult to be alone." But then he said he's on their side.

Gregory: President Bush has been called a lot of things. I don't think "dissident" is one of them.

Sharansky: Well, for me it was an important compliment. I don't share it with many people, and they think also you did as a compliment.

Gregory: Your own reaction when you found out here are ideas that you believed for so long, and now the President of the United States wants to have you to the White House to talk about them. How does that feel?

Sharansky: Well, when I was saying to him that, "You will be alone, but history will be on your side." That's my feeling that I had at that moment, because really it was very upsetting on such an obvious and clear idea which really has to unite the free world, those who are for human rights and those who are for security, they get it. Both things are inseparable from the idea of free society, it's so obvious for me. But both from the left and the right, I was constantly called a very naive somebody who's not connected to reality.

And I, with my co-author, Ron Derme,r wrote this book. In fact, we decided that if the articles or speeches don't help, maybe with the help of the book we can encourage debate in academic circles and think tanks, that even for politicians it will be impossible to avoid it. What you didn't expect, of course, was that we start with a politician, the President of the United States of America. And now we have to figure out how to go down from president to academy and to think tanks.

Gregory: You've spent so much of your life struggling to get your voice heard, and now it's being heard in such a big way, do you feel vindicated in some way?

Sharansky: Yes. When I was listening to the inaugural speech of the president, I was thinking of two things. First of all, what a pity that my teacher, Andrei Sakharov, didn't live to hear this speech because it was his words which I heard in the speech of President Bush. And the second thing, how important that the speech is heard at this moment by dissidents all over the world.

I remember how important for us were the speeches which were coming from the leaders of the free world, like President Reagan, what an encouragement for us to see that the leaders of the free world are supporting us, that see us as their allies, and they believe this - to hear, to see how your book helps President Bush to strengthen his message and to deliver it to dissidents all over the world was very satisfying.

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