>>>
to "hardball."
>>>
welcome back to "hardball." the federal corruption trial of ousted
illinois governor
,
rod blagojevich
kicked off today. he's charged with 24 criminal counts, all felonies including bribery, racketeering, attempted extortion. perhaps the most sensational base on his alleged attempts to sell
president obama
's senate seat.
white house
rahm emanual and senior adviser valerie jarrett. and after a year-long celebrity blitz, here's what the impeached former governor said in a radio interview on wednesday.
>>
i can't wait to get on there, i swear on the
holy bible
to tell the whole truth and to begin to give clarification and explanations and confront my accusers and confront those who are lying.
>>
the washington bureau chief of the "
chicago sun
-times" and the msnbc political contributor and the chuck columnist for "the new york times" and businessman. i want to start with lynn and then to
jim
.
>>
does blago know what blago has done? does he have the sanity and the ability to remember what was taped?
>>
my guess is no, he doesn't and by now he's created, my guess is knowing the guy, although i haven't talked to him since he was arrested. that he thinks that if all of these tapes are played, there will be not be a word --
>>
jim
, is that your conclusion that he doesn't know what he said that he's incriminated by, perhaps?
>>
no. i don't know if he believes that. but i certainly think he believes that it's all quote politics. and anything that we might consider a
quid pro quo
is just sort of the normal business of a big-time governor.
>>
yes, but the one case that's we've been talking about around here -- if he's caught on tape, planning or conspiring to give that senate seat away and to get a job for himself, a private-sector job in the labor room or elsewhere that gets him an income, is that criminal? and doesn't he know it? why doesn't he know it? he must remember that.
>>
yeah, he'll be reminded. i think the audio portion of this is absolutely critical. even though if you believe like i do that this is going to be a primer for all americans about how government works every single day in every
state capital
, every big-time city. the fact that you're going to be hearing it i think is going to make a huge difference. plus i don't thisnk a national audience realizes that over the last year have come a series of top
blagojevich
aides who have admitted to everything from kick-backs to illegal quid pro he quos and you have the matters of the absolutely brazen attempt by governor
blagojevich
to get $50,000 from the head of the most esteemed children's hospital. telling him unless you give me the 50 grand i'm going 0 to hold up $8 million which the legislation has already appropriated for you. just imagine what a jury will think if that testimony plays out.
>>
let's not get too hairy. but i have remembered a conversation i had with somebody in philadelphia about a
u.s. senator
that told somebody, some university, you got your $12 million, now i want $100,000 in
campaign contributions
by
may 30th
. is that illegal?
>>
it may be. the line is bright to a prosecutor. not so bright probably to someone who is soliciting contributions. if --
>>
but this stuff,
jim
says, goes on all the time. he said this is picking up the rock of politics and seeing the bug life underneath. do you buy that?
>>
you know, the what's legal is a crime? what is legal is a crime. why do you think people go to venters for political contributions.
>>
you mean people that do business with the government?
>>
yes, when you look at who contributes.
>>
it's called the contractors, it's called legal business, they want the legal notices. they want the underwriting, the financial houses.
>>
that's why if you look at the financial committees in congress who donates. that's -- the point about this trial --
>>
and lawyers want to be judges.
>>
rod blagojevich
would like nothing more than to make this whole trial about
american politics
, about illinois and chicago politics, because that buttresses his point, he's doing nothing wrong.
>>
let's circle the wagons here. why do you think every
law firm
is good for bundlers? why is it good to get a lawyer to get a bunch of lawyers together to bundle monday sni? why would lawyers want to give money to politicians?
>>
well noted nationally, as a nationally-respected bug life inspector, the reasons are obvious. you're potentially going to get
big business
. and there's a lot of stuff that we as reporters don't ever follow. like big bond business going to
law firms
that specialize in that sort of stuff. and it's substantial monies from the public trough for the
white collar
folks. now it may be as
michael kinsley
said long ago that the most outrageous stuff is the stuff that's legal. but i do think that tape is going to make the difference. there are a bunch of top aides who pleaded guilty or who will be testifying for the government. and i think they could be very damaging.
>>
is he right? it could -- could
blagojevich
be right by saying i've sat around and basically bsed with my staff guides about ways that i could leverage this appointment to leverage this seat of
barack obama
. how could i
raise money
for this? who would give me money for my campaign treasury, what kind of bank shots, if i hit this one person and
someone else
does me a favor. somebody wants this, somebody wants
jesse jackson jr
. that's what he was doing, he was speculating with his staff about who might benefit and want to pay to benefit from an appointment of one of these guys or women to be the senator. right? is that a crime?
>>
and he's saying, you're criminalizing some bs conversations of just --
>>
do you believe in that, warren? is that kind of generalized conversation, sitting in the office thinking how can i leverage this appointment to fill the seat of
barack obama
. how can i get something out of it to pay off my campaign debts. is that a crime?
>>
it conceivably could be, particularly if you put it in the context, and there's allegations here of personal enrichment, chris. not just money going to the campaign fund. but there's suggestions that he was out to personally enrich himself. remember you've also got the allegation of no-show real estate work sengtsly and splitting of fees by his wife. you've got suggestions that there was some remodeling work done on the home in exchange for state business. so it will all be the context in which that is placed. and i do think potentially without knowing what the tapes say, that the audio could be absolutely damaging for a bunch of normal americans.
>>
here's some interesting slop.
blagojevich
was asked if there was a comparison to be made between what he did and what was offered to
joe sestak
. we all know about that.
joe sestak
was offered something by the
white house
, let's listen.
>>
so starting tomorrow, when this case begins, the truth was put in the
lock box
by these prosecutors who falsely accuse me of things and have lied. we're going to unlock the
lock box
tomorrow when we start out in court and the truth will come out and people will see exactly what's happened here and among the things you'll see is yes, the answer is yes, your aknollgy between sestak and me and a lot of the same players are involved.
>>
what a great trouble-maker this guy is. what do you think, lynn?
>>
i think if he -- even though rahm emanual was subpoenaed, did t doesn't mean for sure he'll testify. but that's exactly the point that
rod blagojevich
wants to make. so you're talking to you know, to this guy about appointments, you're deputy,
jim
mussina, that's the story today, went to another candidate in colorado and we have email to show it. what did i do that was wrong or different than
anyone else
who is not in trouble? now -- there is a difference of course in the circumstances.
>>
and also the charges. the charges that have been raised by the republicans,
sean hannity
and others, are basically misdemeanor, fines. what this guy is up on is serious felony charges like racketeering.
>>
that's why you're in the
federal court
. these are, you'll have pretty serious judge. i bet there will be a lot of arguments over what's jermaine and not germane. this is like the confessions of eddy coyle. it's dark, dirty, it's under that rock.
jim warren
, the bug life, under the rock. thank you so much.
jim warren
out in
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