'Meet the Press' transcript for Nov. 29, 2009

MR. DAVID GREGORY:  This Sunday, giving thanks and giving back.  As we take a break from the rough and tumble world of politics here in Washington, we sit down with three very well-known Americans who are blessed with good fortune and who are using those fortunes to help those with far less.

His "Purpose Driven Life" has sold more copies than any other book in history other than the Bible, and he leads one of America's largest congregations at his Saddleback Church in California.  Pastor Rick Warren joins us for an exclusive discussion of faith and charity.

Then he's the world's richest man, founder of computer giant Microsoft. Together with his wife, Melinda, Bill Gates also runs the largest private charitable foundation in the world.  They're here exclusively to discuss their mission to improve global health and education.

But first, our focus on giving thanks and helping others during a tumultuous period in our country economically and politically.  With us:  pastor, best-selling author and no stranger to Washington Rick Warren.

Pastor Rick Warren, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

MR. RICK WARREN:  Good to be back.  Thank you.

MR. GREGORY:  And I will call you Pastor Rick, as I know you like to be called.

MR. WARREN:  Yeah, just call me Rick.  Just call me for dinner.

MR. GREGORY:  What is testing the faith of Americans, do you think, as we approach this holiday season?

MR. WARREN:  Well, no doubt about it, the economy, the, the war in Afghanistan; but also I just think the political divisions are a big deal, that the, the coarsening of our society, that we're, we're demonizing differences.  Those things need to be dealt with.

MR. GREGORY:  We think about Thanksgiving, we think about giving and being thankful for blessings.

MR. WARREN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  You have talked about giving in your own life.  You've acted on giving.  You give.

MR. WARREN:  Yeah.

MR. GREGORY:  And you say that it's not a sin to be rich, but it's a sin to die rich.

MR. WARREN:  I believe that.  That's a personal conviction of mine.  You know, thanks and giving go together.  You, you can give without loving, but you cannot love without giving.  You spell love G-I-V-E.  Probably the most famous verse in the Bible is John 3:16, "God so loved the world that he gave his son." The Bible says every good gift comes from God.  We're most like God when we're giving, when we're generous, because everything we have is a gift. And I've gone on this journey for many years.  When Kay and I got married 35 years ago, we began the biblical practice of tithing 10 percent.  Ten percent we would give away to help other people.  At the end of our first year we raised it to 11 percent; at the end of our second year, raised it to 12; the end of our third year, raised it to 13.  And each year--now, the Bible doesn't tell you to do this.  We were just--every time I give, it breaks the grip of materialism in my life.  My heart grows bigger.  And on years that things were financially tight and we didn't have a lot of money, we'd still raise our giving maybe a quarter of a percent.  And then when I'd get a raise or something, we'd raise it 4 or 5 percent.  Well, now, after 35 years, we actually give away 90 percent and live on 10.  And I play this game with God where God says, "Rick, you give to me and I'll give to you and we'll see who wins." I've lost it for 35 years.

MR. GREGORY:  But also in the Bible, in Deuteronomy it says, "Do not harden your heart and shut your hand against your impoverished brother." But at a time...

MR. WARREN:  Absolutely.

MR. GREGORY:  ...of so much economic fear, of resentment, of anxiety...

MR. WARREN:  Yeah.

MR. GREGORY:  ...how do you encourage people to, to avoid hardening their heart?

MR. WARREN:  Well, you can get compassion fatigue, because you see it all the time.  But it is always possible to give thanks by giving.  All--you can see--what God looks at is not the amount you give, he looks at the amount left over compared to what you give.  And, you know, even if you didn't have any money, you can give time, which is actually far more valuable.  You can always get more money.  But when you give your time, you're giving away your life. So it's possible to always give something.  By the way, when some people talk about giving, they, they stop at nothing.

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

MR. WARREN:  Yeah.

MR. GREGORY:  We've seen that giving has--in 2008, charitable giving was down.

MR. WARREN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  But not to religious institutions.

MR. WARREN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  It was as strong as ever.  Why?

MR. WARREN:  Well, I think because faith communities teach the importance of generosity, that it's, it's a Godly quality.  As I said, we're most like God when, when we're giving.  The, the issue of, of, of God is love, as I said, is a matter of giving back, and I, I think it's just a spiritual discipline.  If you don't have that spiritual discipline, it's pretty easy--by the way, it's not an accident the word "miser" and "miserable" come from the same root word.

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.  It's interesting, Rabbi Joseph Telushkin in his book "A Code of Jewish Ethics" writes something that caught my eye.

MR. WARREN:  Yeah.

MR. GREGORY:  I'll put it on the screen here.  "We become good people not by thinking good thoughts but by doing good deeds again and again." And it's the repetition of that.  But how do you see a distinction between a lot of people who get caught up in giving where it may be that they're checking a box, they're sending in a check.

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