'Meet the Press' transcript for October 25, 2009

SEN. CORNYN:  I think there's probably less here than meets the eye.  They'll find--the companies certainly'll probably find some other alternative means to compensate their executives to keep them there.  But I don't think we should for a minute think this substitutes for real regulatory reform, which is a debate that Congress has not really begun in earnest, waiting till after the healthcare debate has concluded.

GREGORY:  AIG is going to pay more bonuses next March, 200 million in bonuses to the same group, not necessarily the same people who were responsible for the credit default swap collapse.  Andrew Cuomo, the New York attorney general, has said that--he said past March that those names of people getting those bonuses should actually be released publicly.  Do you think that's appropriate?

SEN. SCHUMER:  Well, I don't have a problem with that.  Again...

GREGORY:  They should be shamed, in other words?

SEN. SCHUMER:  No, it's not shamed.  Once you get government money, and this is hundreds of billions of dollars, you're in a different ballpark.  You can't play--I agree with John, I don't think the government should set salaries for companies that are private.  I believe the shareholders should have more power.  And in fact, I've been pushing something, I think it'll be in the reform bill, called a shareholder bill of rights.  It's their responsibility. But when the government is giving massive amounts of money and these people would be out on the street except for the government money, the rules are different.

GREGORY:  Let me turn to the healthcare debate and the issue of the public option.  Here's where the public stands on the idea of a government-run plan that would be alongside private insurance to drive down costs:  61 percent of Americans support the idea of a public option.  Senator Schumer, you're very involved in this.  Will the final bill on healthcare reform have a public option?

SEN. SCHUMER:  I believer Leader Reid is leaning strongly to putting a level playing field, state opt-out public option in the bill.  He's been...

GREGORY:  Explain just for a second how that would actually work.

SEN. SCHUMER:  OK.  There are some, many of my colleagues on the Democratic side, who would like to see it be a much more government-oriented program; the government sets the rates, a Medicare rate or Medicare Plus 5, you're forced to take it, etc.  What I've been proposing is something a little more in the middle.  The government would set it up.  We need some competition for the insurance companies, and many of us believe this is the only way to get real competition.  But then after three months, where they give it some money to get going, it would have to play by the same rules as the insurance companies, the same rates, the same reserves, the same requirements.

GREGORY:  Right.

SEN. SCHUMER:  It would have to pay the loan back over a period of years and, most importantly--and people are worried about this, some, anyway, many--it would negotiate rates with the providers just like an insurance company.  But in states where there is only one insurance company or two--40, 40 of the 50 states, two insurance companies dominate the market.  The only real way or one of the best real ways to bring costs down is a new entity competing.

GREGORY:  OK.

SEN. SCHUMER:  The insurance company industry will not do it on its own.

GREGORY:  And the point is...

SEN. SCHUMER:  The government would.  And it's--and the one other thing I'd say, and this is really important:  You're not required to take the government option.  It's not a government plan being forced on people.  That was the rhetoric in August.  It's an option.

GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

SEN. SCHUMER:  If you don't like your--the private insurance, go to the public option.

GREGORY:  All right.

SEN. SCHUMER:  If you like the private insurance, stick with it.  But even there, the public option will force them to be a little better.

GREGORY:  But you don't--well, well, where are the votes?  Conservative Democrats, Olympia Snowe, are they going to sign up for this?

SEN. SCHUMER:  OK, Leader Reid--and there's nobody better at counting the votes than he is, he's a wizard at it and people don't give him enough credit for it...

GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

SEN. SCHUMER:  ...and I and others have been talking to liberal Democrats, moderate Democrats, conservative Democrats.  The liberals, they like it stronger, but they're willing to live with level playing field, opt-out.  The more moderate Democrats, there are some who actually like it.  As long as it's a level playing field, they're comfortable with it.  There are others who say that, "I'm not sure I like it, but I won't hold up passage of the bill." I think we're very close to getting the 60 votes we need to move forward, and my guess is that the public option level playing field with the state opt-out will be in the bill.  But Leader Reid will make that decision after he talks to everybody several times.

GREGORY:  That's an important development.  You believe the Democrats are close to 60 votes in the Senate for healthcare  reform.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Correct.  Correct.

GREGORY:  Senator Cornyn, can you with live this idea?

SEN. CORNYN:  David...

GREGORY:  Would you vote for it?

SEN. CORNYN:  David, the majority leader is a, is a good vote counter, but I think even he was surprised when 13 Democrats voted with the Republicans to reject $300 billion in additional red ink in the form of the Medicare reimbursements for doctors vote that occurred last week.  I think the majority are recognizing that he has big problems keeping Democrats together, much less attracting Republicans to vote for it.  And the reason is we have maxed out our credit card as a government.  We are at a $12 trillion debt limit; for the second time in the Obama administration the Democrats are going to ask Congress to vote to increase the--that debt limit.

GREGORY:  Who do you blame for that, by the way?

SEN. SCHUMER:  Yeah.  Good question.

SEN. CORNYN:  Well, I think $1.1 trillion in stimulus spending.  Forty-three cents out of every dollar being spent being borrowed money today; with a healthcare proposal which has phony assumptions and that will never occur, like $500 billion in Medicare cuts which actually won't solve the problem of reducing premiums, but will rather increase premiums for people currently with insurance and will impose a tax on middle-class taxpayers.  I mean, this is a bad formula.  We could, I think, create good competition if you allowed people to purchase insurance policies in other states...

SEN. SCHUMER:  David, I just...

GREGORY:  All right.

SEN. CORNYN:  ...rather than the public option, which is a Trojan horse for a single-payer system.

SEN. SCHUMER:  I want to say something about those costs.

GREGORY:  OK, quick response, then I want to move on.  OK.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Because you, you have to--let's talk reality here.  We're trying, in our healthcare  bill, to have it paid for so it doesn't raise the deficit a nickel.  When they had the big Medicare increase, $400 billion, they didn't even try to pay for it.  We're trying to pay.  We've said we will pay for the war in Afghanistan.  One trillion dollars, war in Iraq, they didn't pay a nickel for it.  The debt in January, when George Bush left, voted for by lock, stock and barrel with all the Republicans was much, much greater.  Now Barack Obama and we Democrats, this is counterintuitive but true, are really trying to get a handle on balancing the budget and we're making real efforts to do it.  That's why health care is more limited than people would want it to be.  And we--they say, "Well, it's not good enough." Well, join us and help us.  But you sure didn't try to make it all good when you were in power.

SEN. CORNYN:  Well, David, I hope the Democrats will join with us to, to pass real entitlement reform to deal with these growing deficits.  Senator Conrad, Senator Gregg have a proposal, Senator Feinstein and I have a proposal that was referenced by 10 moderate Democrats who wrote a letter to Harry Reid this last week saying don't count on us as an automatic vote for raising the debt ceiling unless you're going to deal with these deficits and the growing part of spending.

SEN. SCHUMER:  But the bet..

GREGORY:  All right, hold on.  I want to get to a couple of other issues...

SEN. SCHUMER:  OK.

GREGORY:  ...just a couple of minutes left.  First, Afghanistan; as the president decides about his strategy, the former Vice President Dick Cheney was outspoken this week.  This is what he said.

(Videotape, Wednesday)

VICE PRES. CHENEY:  Having announced his Afghanistan strategy in March, President Obama now seems afraid to make a decision and unable to provide his commander on the ground with the troops he needs to complete the mission.  The White House must stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger.

(End videotape)

GREGORY:  Senator Schumer, dithering?

SEN. SCHUMER:  Well, you know, Afghanistan, I agree with Joe Biden.  He said when we hear Dick Cheney, we remember seven years of neglect of Afghanistan that once again now President Obama is going to have to deal with.  He's dealing with it in a thoughtful, careful way.  He's listening to everybody. He will not be rushed to judgment.  It's a--I, I'm wrestling with it myself, and boy it's difficult.  There is no good answer.  But for Dick Cheney, after seven years focusing on Iraq, the wrong place, instead of Afghanistan, to now say, "It's a few months into this administration, they'd better come up with a solution," that's not fair or right.

SEN. CORNYN:  Americans are fighting and dying in Afghanistan today as they have for the last seven years.  I don't understand, for a president who said this is a war of necessity to now question the recommendation of his lead commander General McChrystal...

SEN. SCHUMER:  Mm-hmm.

SEN. CORNYN:  ...on resourcing the war in order to be successful and win.

GREGORY:  Did President Bush and Vice President Cheney provide enough troops to win in Afghanistan?

SEN. CORNYN:  I think we've learned that we need a, a change of strategy as, as, as opposed to just raw numbers.

GREGORY:  It's a simple question.  Did they provide enough troops to win in Afghanistan?

SEN. CORNYN:  Well, obviously we haven't yet won Afghanistan.

GREGORY:  Right.

SEN. CORNYN:  And winning in Afghanistan may be different from Iraq because of the, of the nature of the country.

GREGORY:  But did Bush and Cheney provide the troops to win?

SEN. CORNYN:  Well, we haven't won...

GREGORY:  Right.

SEN. CORNYN:  ...so I guess...

GREGORY:  So they didn't.  You don't think they did?

SEN. CORNYN:  But it's a strategy...

SEN. SCHUMER:  Well...

SEN. CORNYN:  David, the problem is it's not just--as we saw on the surge in Iraq, it's not just the troops, it's the change of strategy.

MORE FROM MEET THE PRESS

Meet the Press Section Front

Sunday's Meet the Press guest list Nov. 22: Senate roundtable, Brinker, Snyderman Nov. 15: Clinton, Duncan, Gingrich, Sharpton Nov. 8: Casey, Barbour, Rendell, roundtable, Brokaw Nov. 1: Tim Geithner, David Plouffe, roundtable Oct. 25: Cornyn, Schumer, Burnett, Sorkin, roundtable Oct. 18: Jarrett, Dodd, Kyl, Shriver, Podesta Oct. 11: Levin, Graham, McCaffrey, Myers, roundtable Oct. 4: Ambassador Susan Rice, roundtable Sept. 27: Bill Clinton, Paterson, Kyl, Webb Meet the Press Section Front   Add Meet the Press headlines to your news reader: