'Meet the Press' transcript for Sept. 13, 2009

MR. DAVID GREGORY:  This Sunday:  Has the president retaken control of the healthcare debate?

(Videotape)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA:  The time for bickering is over.  The time for games has passed.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  But Republicans aren't backing down.

(Videotape)

Unidentified Man:  This isn't the way that you get people to cooperate with you.  You don't say that, "If you disagree with us, we're going to call you out."

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  Is there room for compromise, or will this be a partisan bill? How will reform be paid for, and can it all be done this year?  With us exclusively:  Assistant Majority Leader, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois; Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas; former Democratic National Committee Chairman Dr. Howard Dean; and former House Speaker, Republican Newt Gingrich.

Then, the loss of civility in Washington.

(Videotape)

REP. JOE WILSON (R-SC):  You lie!

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  Is the political middle ground gone for good?

Plus, the economy.  A year after the financial meltdown, why mounting job losses may be the biggest of all the challenges facing the White House. Insights from our roundtable:  anchor of CNBC's "Street Signs," Erin Burnett; Time magazine contributor, author Joshua Cooper Ramo; and NBC's political director and chief White House correspondent Chuck Todd.

But first, the debate on health care.  Joining us, Senators John Cornyn and Dick Durbin and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former DNC chair Dr. Howard Dean.

Welcome to all of you.  A lot to get to.

I want to start with you, Senator Durbin, and get right to it.  In light of the president's speech this past Wednesday, what specifically will be achieved on health care this year?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL):  I think we can pass healthcare reform.  I really believe the American people are ready for it.  We're closer to victory now than we have ever been.  And I hope that we understand that failure to pass this healthcare reform this year will make things overwhelmingly worse.  Those who are opposing us, those who are criticizing us really don't have an alternative.  They would stay with the current situation, which leaves families with health insurance with the uncertainty of its cost and the uncertainty of whether coverage will be there when they need it, and millions of America with no protection at all whatsoever when it comes to healthcare insurance.  We can do better.  And I hope that the Republicans will join us. We've opened the doors to them in the HELP Committee in the Senate; they had hearings that went on for hours and hours, and Chris Dodd chaired it.  They accepted 161 Republican amendments.  At the end of the day, more than half the amendments were from the Republican side, and still not a single Republican senator would vote for the bill.

MR. GREGORY:  So...

SEN. DURBIN:  We need their help, we'd like to have it.

MR. GREGORY:  Are we talking about large-scale reform achievable this year?

SEN. DURBIN:  Yes, I believe it is.  We've got to understand that just taking small steps at this point won't stop the obvious increase in healthcare premiums, which are making it very difficult for individuals and families to pay for health insurance and a lot of businesses are dropping health insurance.  And we also have to understand, the insurance industry is fighting this tooth and nail.  They understand that real health insurance reform is going to make sure that they can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions, there won't be caps on the amount of money that can be spent in a lifetime, that health insurance companies won't abandon you when you need them the most.  Those are the kind of reforms that Americans desperately need.

MR. GREGORY:  And the White House is sending a not so subtle signal, the vice president saying on the "Today" program this week there will be a bill by Thanksgiving.  Will the Senate, will the Congress meet that deadline?

SEN. DURBIN:  I believe we can, and we hope that we'll have Republican support to do it.  Despite the best efforts of Chris Dodd on the HELP Committee, as well as Max Baucus on the Finance Committee, only three Republican senators have really stepped up to this point.  I hope that they will be with us, they'll work with the Finance Committee to pass a bill.  But our doors are open.  As the president said, anyone who'd like to step forward from the Republican side and help us write this bill in a constructive, positive way, we need their help.

MR. GREGORY:  Senator Cornyn, is this a Democratic-only bill?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX):  Well, I hope not.  Republicans would like to see healthcare reform to bring down the costs and make it more accessible to more people who currently don't have health insurance.  But I would, I would respectfully suggest that the president's first got to convince members of his own party with this proposal.  He's laid out what he called his plan during his speech before a joint session.  No one has seen his plan, and what he described is not reflected in any of the bills that have been voted out of House or Senate committees so far.  He has at least 13 senators, by my count, who disagree with him on the so-called public option or government-run plan, and about 90 members of the House--either Blue Dogs, the conservative Democrats, or liberals--who disagree with what that bill should look like. We'd like to work with the president and Democrats to try to come up with a commonsense solution.  I would suggest that this is a case where the 80/20 rule applies, that 80 percent of this we could probably agree with as long as people would agree to leave the 20 percent we can't agree with for another day.

MR. GREGORY:  But, Senator, you're being a lot more diplomatic here this morning.  You, you went much farther; you said the president played lip service to the idea of bringing Republicans on board.

SEN. CORNYN:  I agree.  I think that--I think he has.  Because when he's talked about let's deal with waste, fraud and abuse, something that Speaker Gingrich I know has worked on and I've introduced legislation to do, people want to see exactly what the savings can be from that before they agree to some big plan, a big expansion of government, unfunded mandates on the states through Medicaid expansion and huge cuts in Medicare, which is currently unsustainable.

MR. GREGORY:  But, but, but you say only lip service.  And the White House says, "Wait a minute, in this speech, in the president's plan he's giving a nod to malpractice reform, to tort reform, expanding insurance pools." That was Senator McCain's idea during the campaign.  The idea of capping a tax exemption on, on employer plans, fiscal triggers.  You know, the White House says, "When do Republicans stop moving the goal post and say he's actually hit something here"?

SEN. CORNYN:  It was a good speech.  But he said--he described what he called his plan, and so far we have not seen his plan.  There's a difference between campaigning, giving a good speech, and actually governing.  And I think we're seeing that disconnect here.  Because the president needs to work with us to make hard decisions in order to solve the problem, not just give a speech.

MR. GREGORY:  Do you concede, those are Republican ideas that he outlined in the speech?

SEN. CORNYN:  Those are good ideas.  I'd like to see them reflected in legislation.

MR. GREGORY:  OK.  But you--so--and if they are, that's something you could vote for?

SEN. CORNYN:  Well, I certainly would support those.  I'd want to see the entire picture.  I don't see how we can agree to cut $500 billion out of Medicare, which is currently scheduled to go insolvent by 2017.  I disagree we should raise taxes on small businesses that are a primary job-creating engine in our economy.  So let's see what the whole package looks like.  But those are good ideas.

MR. GREGORY:  All right, let me bring in Gingrich and Dean here.

And, Dr. Dean, let me start with you.  How is the president doing now leading this fight for healthcare reform?

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