'Meet the Press' transcript for July 12, 2009

MR. DAVID GREGORY:  This Sunday:  With the president on the world stage, his agenda is under fire back home.  Critics charge his stimulus plan is stuck, while the number of unemployed Americans continues to climb.  And Democrats appear in disarray over the president's massive healthcare overhaul.

Meanwhile, the political world remains puzzled by Palin.  After her abrupt resignation, what's next for her and the GOP?  With us, the man who put her on the political map by choosing her as his running mate during the 2008 presidential campaign, Arizona senator John McCain.  Then, the view from the other side of the aisle, New York Senator Chuck Schumer.

Finally, the take from our political roundtable:  Karen Hughes, Republican strategist and former counselor to President George W.  Bush; Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and senior adviser to the Gore and Kerry presidential campaigns; Andrea Mitchell, NBC News' chief foreign affairs correspondent; and Roger Simon, Politico's chief political columnist.

But first, Senator John McCain, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ):  Thank you, David.  Thanks for having me back again.

MR. GREGORY:  I'd like to--always happy to have you here.  I want to start with some breaking news this morning.  The front story in The New York Times is that former Vice President Dick Cheney kept Congress in the dark, his orders to keep Congress in the dark about a covert CIA program.  It's a program that CIA Director Panetta has now shut down.  He's briefed Congress about it.  What do you know about this and what's your reaction to it?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, uncharacteristically, not a lot.  I, I am not on the Intelligence Committee.  I don't know what the details of this are.  The vice president, I think, should obviously be heard from if the accusations are leveled in his direction.  Clearly the Republicans did not sign a letter, apparently, that was written alleging this, so I, I think it's, frankly, too early for me to reach any conclusion.

MR. GREGORY:  It doesn't appear as if any lines were crossed, in your judgment?

SEN. McCAIN:  I don't know because, again, a lot of this is anonymous sources.

MR. GREGORY:  Hm.

SEN. McCAIN:  And this is--if I know Washington, this is the beginning of a pretty involved and detailed story.  And I, I don't have enough information, but I think a lot more's to come on this.

MR. GREGORY:  Should there be an investigation, do you think?

SEN. McCAIN:  I don't know if--first of all, I'd like to know the facts of the case before there should be an, "an investigation."

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

SEN. McCAIN:  How long did, did the director of the CIA know about this program and when did he terminate it?  And all of these things are going to, are probably going to be heavily discussed in the weeks ahead.

MR. GREGORY:  Speaking about investigations, there's now word from Newsweek magazine today with a story about the attorney general, that he's getting closer to investigating alleged torture during the Bush administration.  This is the reporting from Daniel Klaidman, that Holder "may be on the verge of asserting his independence in a profound way.  Four sources telling Newsweek that he's now leaning towards appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration's brutal interrogation practices." Would that be a good idea?

SEN. McCAIN:  No.  Look, I fought against waterboarding.  I said waterboarding was torture.  We passed the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibited cruel and inhumane treatment.  I have spoken out as forcefully as possible everywhere against what went on and that we need--it harms our image so much around the world when photographs come out and--we all know that bad things were done.  We all know that the operatives who did it most likely were under orders to do so.  For us to continue this and harm our image throughout the world--I agree with the president of the United States, it's time to move forward and not go back.

MR. GREGORY:  But where's the accountability?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, the accountability, obviously, is that people's reputations have been harmed very badly.  The question is, is do we want America's image harmed more by dragging this out further and further?  You've got to--what's going to be the positive result from airing out and ventilating details of what we already knew took place and should never have, and we are committed to making sure never happens again?  I do not excuse it, I'm just saying what's the, what's the effect on America's image in the world?  I don't, I don't mean to drag out my answer, but I did meet with a high ranking member of al-Qaeda in a prison in Iraq who said his greatest recruiting tool was the pictures of Abu Ghraib.  We don't want to give the, the terrorists and the radical Islamic extremists more tools and bullets to shoot against us and help their recruiting in this ongoing struggle we're in.

MR. GREGORY:  Let me turn to politics.  You must have been shocked to see Governor Sarah Palin resign as governor.

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, I wasn't shocked.  Obviously, I was a bit surprised, but I wasn't shocked.  I understand that Sarah made the decision where she can be most effective for Alaska and for the country.  I love and respect her and her family.  I'm grateful that she agreed to run with me.  I am confident she will be a major factor in the national scene and, and in Alaska, as well.

MR. GREGORY:  But you say you were surprised a little bit.  Why?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, because she had not called me.  We've discussed it since and I better understand the reasons for her decision.

MR. GREGORY:  What were they?

SEN. McCAIN:  Look, there's--well, how could she best serve?  How could she most effectively serve Alaska and the country?  And that was her decision.

MR. GREGORY:  But, but, but, Senator, you have a reputation...

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  ...of personal and professional toughness and stick-to-itiveness.

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  You sought the highest role in the land, president of the United States.

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  You never quit.

SEN. McCAIN:  Oh, I don't think she quit.  I think she changed her priorities.

MR. GREGORY:  She made a promise to the voters to serve out her term, didn't she?

SEN. McCAIN:  I don't know if there was a "promise," but I do know that she will be an effective player on the national stage.  And I will say, I have never seen the sustained personal family attacks that were made on Sarah Palin and her family in, in, in my life.  Carl Cannon has a very interesting piece about the media establishment and the attacks that were made on her, and I'm sure that that had some impact.  Ethics charge after ethics charge, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of, worth of legal fees.  But the fact is she is very popular with our Republican base.  She will be a strong voice.  I chose her because she was a reformer, because she beat an incumbent governor, she was a popular Republican of her own party, she ignited our base, she did a great job as my running mate even under the most sustained personal attacks that...

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

SEN. McCAIN:  ...in certainly recent American political history.

MR. GREGORY:  But, Senator McCain, you have faced personal torture, personal attacks, political attacks, investigations.  You have never resigned from anything.  Is it consistent with your qualities of leadership to resign an elected post like this?

SEN. McCAIN:  Sure.  If you think you can be...

MR. GREGORY:  It is consistent?

SEN. McCAIN:  If you can be--the question is, is how can you serve most effectively?  Sarah and Todd and her family made a decision that she can be most effective by stepping down, and she did.  I respect that, that position and that decision, and I cannot tell you the appreciation I have for her.

MR. GREGORY:  You think she's qualified to seek the high, highest office in the land?

SEN. McCAIN:  I know she's qualified.  I know she's qualified.

MR. GREGORY:  She is qualified?

SEN. McCAIN:  Sure.  Absolutely.

MR. GREGORY:  No doubt about it.

SEN. McCAIN:  No doubt about it.  She has all the right instincts, all the right principles.  She was a, she was a, a mayor, she's a governor.  She understands the challenges that families face.  She has, she has a great background, and I am confident that she will continue to play, as I say, a major role.

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