'Meet the Press' transcript for June 28, 2009

MR. GREGORY:  Can we say it's failed?

GOV. ROMNEY:  Well, it hasn't been as effective as it should have been.  For, for the, for the millions of extra people who are going to be unemployed, it has not been successful.  This is a bill, if it had been crafted properly and focused on creating jobs, we would have come out of the recession faster and we would have had a lower level of unemployment.  It has failed in delivering the stimulus that was needed at the time it was needed.

MR. GREGORY:  All right, I want to come back to the president's agenda--health care, energy--in just a moment.  But first, I want to talk about what's going on inside the Republican Party and specifically, Senator, down in your home state...

SEN. GRAHAM:  Right.

MR. GREGORY:  ...of South Carolina.  Governor Mark Sanford disappeared for five days then announced that, in fact, he'd had a mistress, he was visiting a mistress in Argentina.  He misled his staff, he misled the voters.  Should he resign?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Well, the first thing, I'm the godfather of Mark and Jenny's youngest child, so I'm just going to put that on the table.  My main focus right now is can this marriage be saved?  Can these kids have a mom and dad to guide them through life?  That is my main focus.  I think if Mark can reconcile with Jenny, and that's not going to be easy, that he can finish his last 18 months.  He's had a good reform agenda.  And I do believe that if, if he can reconcile with his family and if he's willing to try, that the people of South Carolina would be willing to give him a second chance.  But he's also got to reconcile the legislature.  If he can get his family back together, I think he can continue out his term and maybe do some good things next year.

MR. GREGORY:  But you've talked to him.  What's, what's his state of mind?

SEN. GRAHAM:  What do you think?  Devastated.  I mean, you know, it's just--this is hard for me.  I mean, I'm the godfather of his youngest child. This is not just some political observation.  Devastated.

I talked to Jenny.  And the one thing I can tell you, Mark Sanford is lucky to have Jenny Sanford.  And I, I hope he realizes that, and I think he does.  And these four boys are, Mitt knows--let's just pray they get back together.  But second chances are not deserved or required, but if they're ever given, they can be a blessing.  I hope Mark gets one with his family and the voters.

MR. GREGORY:  There's the personal, but there's the political, Governor Romney.  I spoke to a Republican this week who said this wasn't just a personal problem, this was political malfeasance.  Should he hang on to his job?

GOV. ROMNEY:  You know, his, his holding onto that job is really between him and his family and the, and the people of South Carolina.  It's not for people outside the state to make pronouncements on.  This is a matter which is really a heartbreaking matter, and that's what I think you have to focus on.  You've got a family in great distress.  And I'm, I'm really...

MR. GREGORY:  But you're a former governor.  It's more than that.  I mean, this is somebody who disappeared.  What if there had been a crisis in South Carolina?  This is somebody who lies to the voters and his staff about where he is.  And doesn't it go beyond a personal failing?

GOV. ROMNEY:  Well, overwhelmingly the heartbreak is what the public is focused on, and what we should be focused on.  And seeing this family become healed is our highest priority.  At the same time--and, and, and not commenting on, particularly on, on, on Governor Sanford, but if you look at this, this setting, and we've seen it time and again on both sides of the aisle, I think you have to recognize that people that are in, in public life ought to be held to a higher standard.  That, that when--I heard one governor, former governor say, "Well, everybody makes mistakes." Well, that's true.  But not all mistakes are the same.  And not everybody is a governor or a senator or a president.  And we expect people to live by a higher standard, because what they do is going to be magnified.  Their families are going to be hurt more by what they do.  Their, their--the things they care about will be hurt. And the culture of the nation and the people who follow them will be hurt.

MR. GREGORY:  This is what Ron Kaufman, who's a Republican lobbyist who's close to you, Governor, said on Thursday in The New York Times:  When we in the Republican Party do these things, "these kinds of things like what happened with Senator Ensign," who had an affair and resigned his leadership position in the Senate, "and now with Sanford it hurts our credibility as a party of good governing and of values."

Senator Graham, is the Republican Party still a party of values?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Yeah.  I think we're a party of sinners, just like every other group in America, but we're also a party that openly talks about good things. It is good for Mark and Jenny to get back together, if that's possible, because it's good for families to have a mom and dad.  And it's OK to talk about those things.  And part of life is failing.  So from Mark's point of view, if he can get his family back together, people are pretty fair in this country.  Bill Clinton had his problems.  People looked at his job performance, they looked at his personal failings and they said, "You know what, we're going to put one over here and the other over there." That's no justification for what Mark did, but I think the people of South Carolina appreciate what Mark tried to do as governor to change their state.

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

SEN. GRAHAM:  And they're very disappointed in what he did as Mark the individual and his malfeasance at, at times, but they can reconcile the two only if, if Jenny and Mark can get back together.  I think the people of South Carolina will give him a second chance.

MR. GREGORY:  Do you think you had that kind of compassion during the impeachment proceedings against President Clinton?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Well, I can tell you this.  I'm the only Republican that voted against the article that dealt with lying about Monica Lewinsky, because I think lying about a consensual affair when you're blindsided is not a high crime or misdemeanor.  The reason I vote for impeachment is because it was a lawsuit about nonconsensual behavior where President Clinton was accused of doing some very crude things; he manipulated witnesses, he undermined the integrity of the legal system like Richard Nixon undermined the integrity of the political system.  That's what I focused on, not the fact that he lied about a consensual event.

MR. GREGORY:  Governor, do you think that family values, values generally is still a central pillar of what the Republican Party stands for?

GOV. ROMNEY:  Absolutely.  There's no question in my mind but that our...

MR. GREGORY:  And do you think the public believes this after a string of personal failings that have happened to Democrats and certainly plenty of Republicans?

GOV. ROMNEY:  I, I, I don't think there's any question but that we aspire to the highest standards of ethical conduct and that we aspire to values that'll make America stronger.  There's no question.  But the best think you can do for raising a child is to have a mom and dad love each other in a home.  And, and to say that and to say we want to see marriage between men and women, that we want to see families raised with the benefit of people who are married, that's a, that's a very important part of our culture.  It's part of what our, our parties believes.  We believe in life.  These features are important.  And do we have people who don't live up to those standards?  Absolutely.  That's, that's going to be true.  But not speaking about things that are important...

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

GOV. ROMNEY:  ...would be an enormous mistake.

MR. GREGORY:  But are you sensitive at all to critics on the left who say, you know, Republicans are hypocrites when they go out there and talk about family values?

GOV. ROMNEY:  You know, I'm always going to be sensitive to people who are attacking on one side or the other.  But I'll tell you, I'd rather be talking about the truth and indicating that sometimes people fall short than not saying what's true.  And what is true is that America is a stronger nation if we have a culture which includes the creation of families with moms and dads and marriage and sacrifice for the next generation.

SEN. GRAHAM:  You know, and I don't believe Democrats are for dysfunctional families.  We don't have any ownership.  I think President Obama, quite frankly, has been one of the better role models in the entire country for the idea of being a good parent, a good father.  So this idea that, that, that we're for good families and Democrats are silent's not true.  I think we fail on both sides.  But quite frankly, President Obama has done a lot of good in his--the way he carries himself and conducts himself in the area of family.

MR. GREGORY:  Let me just spend a moment talking more generally about the future of the Republican Party.  I spoke to a prominent Republican this week who said the problem for Republicans is that they have failed to take stock of what happened last year in the election.  They have failed to take stock of the demographic changes in the country.  Who are the leaders of this party and what are the issues that bring it back to power, Senator?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Well, he's one of the leaders.  The people...

GOV. ROMNEY:  He's the other one.

SEN. GRAHAM:  I can be a leader on an issue, quite frankly.  I mean, the Republican Party has an opportunity now to get back in the game, and we appreciate the Democrats for making that possible.  Without them we would be out of the game.  If President Obama had went to the middle and did all the things he said he would do in the campaign, we'd probably be toast.  But he has not.  You know, I know bipartisanship when I see it.  You pay a price for it.  There has been no bipartisanship.  The stimulus package was Karl Rove politics; pick a few Republicans off, call it bipartisan.  The climate change bill was Tom DeLay banging heads and twisting arms to get one vote more than you needed.  So there's really been no change in Washington and he missed the boat, and he's spending money that the next generation can never come up with and he's growing the government beyond most people's imagination.  And we're back in the game because of their mistakes, but we need to do more than that.

MR. GREGORY:  And this is the blueprint, it sounds like, for the Republican opposition.

Governor, are you a leader of the Republican Party?  You have certainly taken pains to separate yourself from President Obama.  Are you planning a run for the presidency again in 2012?

GOV. ROMNEY:  Well, that's way beyond my horizon at this point, to think about what's going to happen in 2012.  What I'm thinking about...

MR. GREGORY:  But you're laying the foundation for it, is that fair to say?

GOV. ROMNEY:  What, what I'm, what I'm laying the foundation for is picking up seats in 2010.  We've got some governors races in '09 in Virginia and in, and New Jersey.  We've got a whole series, of course, of Senate and House races and governors races in '10.  It's important for us to, to have a stronger message as we go forward.  And I think the party does have to stand up and be able to say, "Listen, Mr. Axelrod, you're wrong when you say we don't have ideas." We have a healthcare plan.  You, you look at Wyden-Bennett, that's a healthcare plan that a number of Republicans think is a very good healthcare plan, one that we support.  Take a look at that one.  We, we believe in allowing people to have choice in their health care.  We believe in allowing people to have choice in schools.  That's another one of our elements.  We believe that, with regards to energy, that putting a massive tax on the American public and on industry is not going to create jobs, it's going to hurt jobs.  But here's an idea we have, something like a tax swap that Charles Krauthammer and Greg Mankiw have talked about.  These are ways that, that are more effective than this cap and trade proposition.  We, we've got ideas, we've got a, a mission that will allow America to be stronger and families to have a more prosperous future.

MR. GREGORY:  Is Sarah Palin also a leader of this party?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Absolutely.  I think Huckabee, Palin, Mitt Romney, John McCain--because he's the most recognizable public, public figure as a Republican, because he ran for president with a good approval rating--congressional leaders.  A guy like me who'll try to find common ground on the issue on immigration.  You know, one thing long-term about this party, the demographic changes in this country are real.  We lost ground with Hispanic voters because of the way we behaved and the things we said on immigration.  Obama won younger voters because of the image he projected and his positive agenda.  But the biggest loser for 18 to 34-year-olds, in my opinion, is the Obama agenda.  They're the ones going to have to pay for this massive government.

MR. GREGORY:  Hm.

SEN. GRAHAM:  They're the ones going to lose choice in health care.  So demographically and with young people, we've got our work cut out for us. We'll do well in 2010, but I'm worried about 20 years from now.  For us to do better, to be a party, not a club, we're going to have to adjust.

MR. GREGORY:  Let me go through a few of these issues here, in our remaining time, on the agenda.  And I'll start with you, Senator Graham.  Health care; will the president achieve healthcare reform this year that includes a public plan?

SEN. GRAHAM:  No.

MR. GREGORY:  What will be achieved?

SEN. GRAHAM:  I think the Wyden bill, where you got six Republicans, six Democrats, where you'll have purchasing power, given help by the government to purchase private sector policies and reform in general will succeed, not a government option that would destroy competition.  We're not going to nationalize health care.

MR. GREGORY:  Governor:

GOV. ROMNEY:  Absolutely right.  We have a model that worked.  One state in America, my state, was able to put in place a plan that got everybody health insurance, and it did not require a public government insurance company. That's the last thing America needs.  You know exactly what it is.  President Obama, when he was campaigning, said he wanted a single payer system.  That's would it would lead to.  He would subsidize this over time, it would become larger and larger, drive the private options out of the healthcare industry. It would be just disastrous for health care in this country.  And therefore the right way to proceed is to reform health care.  That we can do, as we did it in Massachusetts, as Wyden-Bennett is proposing doing it at the national level.  We can do it for the nation, we can get everybody insured, we can get the cost of health care down, but we don't have to have government insurance and government running health care to get that done.

MR. GREGORY:  The other big news; Friday, the victory for the president on the climate change bill in the House.  What's going to happen in the Senate?

SEN. GRAHAM:  If that's a victory, then I don't know what losing would be. He lost 40-something Democrats.  The process was not changed.  The process was beating people up to make them vote for something they really didn't want to vote for.  This idea of climate change is real, in my opinion, and the way you solve the problem is not you have some major tax on industry and private sector.  You join forces with energy independence groups and climate change groups to get a bipartisan bill.  But this bill coming out of the House is going nowhere in the Senate.  But climate change is real and we need to do something.  The gang of 10 that I was in...

MR. GREGORY:  Yeah.

SEN. GRAHAM:  ...is something to look at.

MR. GREGORY:  But is--does--is there a filibuster in the Senate by Republicans?

SEN. GRAHAM:  I think you're going to have a--the news is that red state Democrats are bailing out on the president's agenda faster than Republicans.

MR. GREGORY:  On foreign policy, before we go, on Iraq, the deadline now to remove combat troops coming up on June the 30th.  The Bush administration several times before had a deadline to turn matters over to Iraqi authorities, only to fail on numerous occasions.  What's different, if anything, this time?

GOV. ROMNEY:  Well, what's interesting is this is not different.  This is the plan that President Bush put in place.  And Barack Obama, having campaigned against President Bush saying, look, he has an entirely different view for Iraq, is actually following President Bush's plan.  And that's a good thing. I think it's appropriate for our troops to begin to--the withdrawal process on the major population centers, as was indicated during President Bush's term. The place I think that, that we really ought to be focusing on today is what's happening in Iran.

MR. GREGORY:  Well, and with that, you said last week...

SEN. GRAHAM:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  ...that he was timid and weak, the president was, when it came to Iran.

SEN. GRAHAM:  I said he was timid and passive.

MR. GREGORY:  Timid and passive, excuse me.  Has he, has he gotten better? Has he gotten it right now?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Yes.  And I think the video of the young girl dying in the street made it real to the president more than anything I could say, and since then he's done a very good job.  And the question for this country and the world is if the supreme leader certifies the election and says Ahmadinejad is the president of Iran, do we recognize that?  I don't see how we can now.  I don't see how we can embrace this regime, given what they've done and the way they've behaved.

MR. GREGORY:  And if the president signs an executive order to, to indefinitely detain prisoners from Guantanamo Bay, would you support that?

SEN. GRAHAM:  I support the idea of an indefinite detention program with a legal review.  I think he should come through Congress and do it, that way it will be stronger and in court and we'll all be on board.  Bush tried this by executive order.  Come to the Congress, work with us, we can find middle ground on this.

MR. GREGORY:  We're going to leave it there.  Lindsey Graham, Governor Mitt Romney, thank you both very much.

Coming next, who's left to lead the GOP, and how will President Obama's agenda fare in Congress and across the nation?  Our political roundtable:  David Brooks, E.J.  Dionne, Mike Murphy and Dee Dee Myers after this brief station break.

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