'Meet the Press' transcript for June 28, 2009

MR. DAVID GREGORY:  This Sunday, the Obama agenda:  health care, energy, the economy.  Where does it go from here?  Where will the president push and where will he compromise?  And on Iran, the president talks tough...

(Videotape)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA:  I would suggest that Mr. Ahmadinejad think carefully about the obligations he owes to his own people.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  ...but is the administration still prepared to talk to Iran about nuclear weapons?  This morning, an assessment at a key moment of the Obama presidency.  Our guest, the president's senior adviser David Axelrod.

Then, the future of the GOP after the downfall of another Republican leader.

(Videotape)

GOV. MARK SANFORD (R-SC):  It's going to hurt, and we'll let the chips fall where they may.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  Rising political star South Carolina governor Mark Sanford admits cheating on his wife, misleading his staff and the state, and is now fighting for his job.  Thoughts this morning on the present and the future for Republicans.  With us, former Governor of Massachusetts and GOP presidential candidate in 2008 Mitt Romney and Republican senator from South Carolina Lindsey Graham.

Then the take from our roundtable:  New York Times columnist David Brooks, Washington Post columnist E.J.  Dionne, Republican strategist Mike Murphy and former White House press secretary for President Clinton, now a contributing editor at Vanity Fair, Dee Dee Myers.

But first, here with us live now, the president's senior adviser David Axelrod.

Welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

MR. DAVID AXELROD:  Great to be here.

MR. GREGORY:  An important victory for the president Friday night on the climate change bill, he gets it through the House.  But there were signs of division among Democrats.  Forty-four Democrats voted against this.  Is this a red flag about whether this massive energy bill is going to fail in the Senate?

MR. AXELROD:  No, I don't think so.  David, understand that a few weeks ago people wouldn't have given you a dime that this was going to pass the House. And I think there's two things.  One is there's a growing awareness that we need to move on energy.  We've been waiting for decades.  And this bill will create millions of clean energy jobs, it will deal with this energy--our dependence on foreign oil, and we have to deal with that, and, and it deals with this deadly pollution and global warming that we have to, that we have to move on.  So the House acted.  I think the Senate will come to the same conclusion.  But the bill that was crafted helped ameliorate some of the hard edge of--that people were worried about, and I think that will carry the day in the Senate as well.

MR. GREGORY:  But Republicans say it's not going to create jobs, it's going to kill jobs, and they say it's dead in the Senate.

MR. AXELROD:  Well, Republicans then have to come up with an answer to all these questions:  What are we going to do about our dependence on foreign oil? What are the new industries of the future?  Are we going to let these energy jobs go to China and India, or are we going to command the future?  What are we going to do about pollution and global warming that threaten our health and our planet?  You know, what we've heard from the Republican Party is a lot of what we can't do.  The question is, are we going to step up and deal with the big problems facing this country?

MR. GREGORY:  Do you have unity among Democrats in the Senate?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, I think that, as always, the legislative process is, is filled with twists and turns.  But I believe that there is a strong desire to deal with these issues.

MR. GREGORY:  But you're facing the prospect--the very real prospect of a filibuster by Republicans in the Senate.  Do you have the votes to overcome that?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, the vote is not tomorrow.  The vote will come sometime in the fall, and I think that we will fashion an energy package that will move this country forward and carry the day.

MR. GREGORY:  There's a lot on the agenda, and health care is the centerpiece of all of this.  But again, that fact of 44 Democrats opposing you on climate change in the House, is this a shot across the bow that applies to health care?  Do you think the president will get a healthcare reform bill that includes a public plan this year?

MR. AXELROD:  I think we're going to get a healthcare reform bill this year, and I wouldn't assume that the 44 who, who weren't with us on energy will not be with us on health care.  Indeed, many of them told us that they will.  So I think people understand that, that families, businesses and the government itself is getting slammed by this inexorable climb in healthcare prices, and we have to deal with it.

MR. GREGORY:  But you're confident about getting that bill with a public plan this year.

MR. AXELROD:  I'm confident that we're going to get a healthcare reform bill. I think a public choice will be part of it.  I think the public wants to have that option and wants to see that kind of competition, and I think we will, we will have that.

MR. GREGORY:  Well, let's be clear what we're talking about as well.  You're talking about a public sponsored, a government sponsored healthcare plan that can exist side by side with private insurance plans, and that allows Americans without insurance to make a choice between a private and a public plan.

It's interesting.  In the press conference this week, the president said any opposition to that is illogical.  But at the same time, he won't draw a line in the sand, nor will you in your previous answer.  And yet supporters of that public plan, including Howard Dean, doctor, former governor, former head of the Democratic Party, said it's got to be in there.  This is what he said as reported by The Hill newspaper on Friday:  "We are here;" he said at a rally, "we're not going away.  We voted for change a few months ago.  We expect change.  And if we don't get it, there's going to be more change." That's what Howard Dean said.  "`Success on healthcare reform is a must for Democrats,' Dean told The Hill.  `I think it's going to be a catastrophic problem for the Democratic Party if they can't get this bill out.'" And what he means is with a public plan.

MR. AXELROD:  Well, first of all, I think that if we don't pass healthcare reform it's going to be a catastrophic problem for the country, not just the Democratic Party; for families, businesses and the country itself.  Look, we believe strongly in, in a public choice; not one that's subsidized by the government, but one that will embrace the best practices, that will reduce healthcare costs and give people the best quality care.  What the president said was illogical were the same people who say that the government is incompetent, the government can't run anything, the government shouldn't be involved in, in anything say, but we can't let that be one of the choices because it'll be an unfair advantage against the, against the insurance companies.

MR. GREGORY:  When it comes to a public plan, though, no ultimatums from the president?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, the president believes strongly in a, in, in a public choice, and he's made that very, very clear.  He's made that clear privately, he's made that clear publicly, and we're going to continue to do so.

MR. GREGORY:  Well, but why not say, "This is what it has to have or I won't sign it"?

MR. AXELROD:  Look, we have gotten a long way down the road by not drawing bright lines in the sand, other than on the major points, which is that we can't add to the deficit with this healthcare reform, so it has to be paid fore, it has to reduce costs, and we want to make sure that all Americans have a quality, affordable health care.  Those are the, those are the things that have to be accomplished.  People have different ideas.  We're willing to listen to those ideas.  But that's where we're--that--those are the imperatives that we have to sell.

MR. GREGORY:  But the president's not going to ram this through, he's not going to ram his priorities through.

MR. AXELROD:  Well, I just told you what the president's priorities were, and he won't sign a bill that doesn't, that does not meet those priorities.

MR. GREGORY:  Well, all right, but let's be clear then.  Can there be a successful outcome, in the president's mind, without a healthcare reform plan that includes a public plan?

MR. AXELROD:  I think the president wants a robust public option to compete against these private plans.

MR. GREGORY:  He wants it, but he's not demanding it.

MR. AXELROD:  Well, look, as I said, we're--we've not gotten as far as we've gotten by drawing bright lines in the sand.  He's going to fight hard for that.

MR. GREGORY:  All right, let me move to the economy.  You were on this program back in February and this is what you said.

(Videotape, February 15, 2009)

MR. GREGORY:  Will this stimulus plan prevent unemployment from reaching 10 percent, do you think?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, that's our hope.  That's our hope.  There's no doubt that without it that's what, that's where we were looking, double-digit unemployment.  And that's what we're trying to forestall.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  Well, with the stimulus plan we're at 9.4 percent unemployment. The president said this week it will go above 10 percent.

MR. AXELROD:  Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY:  It leads Republicans to say the stimulus is a failure and to say, where are the jobs?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, look, everyone--at the time that I spoke, every single economic prediction was that the recession would be less severe than it turned out to be.  This recession that began last year is the worst that we've had in generations, and so unemployment is higher than any of us would like.  But to suggest that it wouldn't have gone higher had we not done the things we did I think is totally misleading.

MR. GREGORY:  But the facts...

MR. AXELROD:  And no, no, no serious...

MR. GREGORY:  The facts are even with the stimulus...

MR. AXELROD:  No, no...

MR. GREGORY:  ...it went higher.

MR. AXELROD:  Well, there's no doubt that we didn't, that we, we have not broken the back of the recession and--but there's no serious economist, David, who would argue that what we did has not contributed to a lessening of the impact.  No one's happy with that number.  The president said when the stimulus--when the Recovery Act passed that it was going to take a long time, that, that employment was the last thing that was going to turn, because that's the way economics works.  And so, you know, we're going to have to sail through some very difficult times here.  But the question is, are we moving in the right direction?  Are we building a foundation for economic growth for the future?  And does this, does this economic recovery package help?  And the answer is yes.

MR. GREGORY:  Warren Buffett said this week more stimulus might be needed. Does the president believe that?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, let's see how this, this stimulus works.

MR. GREGORY:  All right.

MR. AXELROD:  As everyone has noted, much of the spending is yet to come. And let's see how this works before we start talking about the next steps.

MR. GREGORY:  How much time before you make a decision about whether more stimulus is needed?

MR. AXELROD:  Well, let's see in the fall where we are.  But right now we believe that what we've done is adequate to the task.  If more is needed, we'll have that discussion.

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