'Meet the Press' transcript for Dec. 14, 2008

MR. GREGORY:  So I, I just want to understand this.  So do you try to call him or go see him, and then he just doesn't get back to you?

LT. GOV. QUINN:  Well, you try and try.  But after a while, you know, it's not an easy place to go.  You just try and do your own job as best you can. The governor has his style.  I think that style hasn't worked for him or anyone else.

MR. GREGORY:  Right.  All right.  Let's talk about the, the prospect of the special election for this Senate seat that the president-elect is vacating. Of course, you were on the "Today" program earlier this week.  This is what you said.

(Videotape)

LT. GOV. QUINN:  In general, I'm for the voters deciding who the next senator would be or any other public official.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  So are you for a special election?

LT. GOV. QUINN:  Well, since I was on the "Today" show, I saw a bill on Friday night that would provide for a temporary appointment to the U.S. Senate until we could have a special election.  I am concerned that we always have two Senators from Illinois representing us in Washington, and I think it's very important that whoever is governor get an opportunity to appoint at least a temporary person until an election could take place.

MR. GREGORY:  All right.  The, the issue here about this potential corruption in the state has raised a lot of eyebrows, obviously, in Illinois, about the question of where did all this come from?  Mary Mitchell, who will be on the roundtable in just a moment here, writes this morning in the Chicago Sun-Times what she calls "more of the same."

"The way out of the Senate seat scandal," she writes, "can't be more of the same.  With all due respect to Lieutenant Governor Pat Quinn, he shouldn't be in a position to pick the next Illinois senator.  He has served six years with the governor and didn't have a clue as to what was really going on with the Blagojevich administration."

Is that a fair criticism?

LT. GOV. QUINN:  No, I don't think it's fair at all.  I spoke out.  I, I was the leader of the effort to have recall in the Illinois constitution to give voters a chance to remove the governor if they felt that was appropriate.  I think that is the best way to go when all is said and done, if he doesn't resign.  But I would say this, that Illinois has had great, great U.S. Senators, people like Paul Simon and Paul Douglas and Barack Obama.  We also have some bad apples in politics, and we have to oust them and recall and, in this case, resignation is--are the way to go.

MR. GREGORY:  Ms. Madigan, let me turn to you one last time.  Your views on a special election.

MS. MADIGAN:  I think that's the appropriate way to go at this point, obviously, because of the taint that has been brought about by Governor Blagojevich in tempting to sell the U.S. Senate seat, allegedly.  That's the best thing for the people of the state is to have a special election, have somebody put in that position legitimately by the people.

MR. GREGORY:  As the attorney general, do you have any concerns about the potential involvement of the president-elect or other representatives in terms of contacts with the, the governor or his representatives?

MS. MADIGAN:  You know what, I do not know the extent or even the existence of those contacts.  It doesn't appear, from what I've heard so far, that there's anything improper that has occurred.

MR. GREGORY:  All right.  We'll leave it there.  Thanks to you both this morning.

MS. MADIGAN:  Thank you.

MR. GREGORY:  Let's now turn back here to Washington to discuss how all of this scandal in Illinois will impact the president-elect.  Joining us, Mary Mitchell, the aforementioned columnist with the Chicago Sun-Times, and Chuck Todd, our political director here at NBC News.

Welcome to both of you.

MR. CHUCK TODD:  Morning.

MS. MARY MITCHELL:  Thank you.

MR. GREGORY:  All right.  Chuck, so some of the news here is about incoming Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel...

MR. TODD:  Right.

MR. GREGORY:  ...a veteran of, of Chicago politics and going to be the chief of staff.  So he did have contacts with the Blagojevich administration.  The Chicago Tribune reported it this way this week, the headline that indeed he did talk with governor's office about who should fill this Obama Senate seat. "One source confirmed the communications between Emanuel and the Blagojevich administration were captured on court-approved wiretaps.  Another source said that contact between the Obama camp and the governor's administration regarding the Senate seat began the Saturday before the November 4th election when Emanuel made a call to the cell phone of Blagojevich's chief of staff John Harris.  Emanuel delivered a list of candidates who would be `acceptable' to Obama." A problem?

MR. TODD:  Perfectly normal communication that you would have in a situation like this, obviously, if Obama, becoming the president-elect, there would be some communication here between two Democrats, a Democratic governor and an incoming Democratic president.  The question is going to be--I think that the only thing the Obama folks have to fear is, did they have an inkling by any reaction from, from either John Harris or from Rod Blagojevich that they--those guys were looking for something...

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

MR. TODD:  ...and did act upon that or not.  And then the second thing I think is, you know, did, did, you know--do they have their--do they know everything that's on tape?  And I think that's why we haven't heard from them, that's why there's been a slow response because I think there's always this fear of contradiction.  There's always this fear, "This is what I'm pretty sure the conversation was about," and, of course, we have an exact recording. And I think that's why we've seen a slow response by the Obama folks.

MR. GREGORY:  And, Mary Mitchell, it, it is fair to conjecture, I think, that, at this stage, the Obama lawyers and team is working with the U.S. attorney, Pat Fitzgerald, because some of this evidence, including Rahm Emanuel's contacts, would be on that wiretap evidence that's going to be a key part of the tape.  We've only seen some of that, of course, in that criminal complaint.  But there is a question about delays.  Why hasn't the Obama team put more of this out?  Is it a problem for him?

MS. MITCHELL:  It's a problem.  It's a problem.  And I'm not saying it's a criminal problem or anything like that.  It's a perception problem.  Should have came out first of all and said, "Yes.  What's wrong with talking to the governor about a seat?  There's nothing wrong doing that."

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

MS. MITCHELL:  The--take two days, three days, a week, we're still waiting about this investigation.  Well, why would you have to investigate?  It would have to be somebody very close, a higher up person, a close adviser.  The secretary didn't do it.  You know, the, the cleaning guy didn't do it--have the conversation.  This was not barbershop talk.

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

MS. MITCHELL:  This would have to be a meeting to discuss a very important seat.  That's first of all.  Second of all, the shocking thing about the list that Rahm Emanuel allegedly was supposed to have given to him didn't have Congressman Jesse Jackson's name on it.  That, that just kind of blew my mind. Jackson worked for an Obama campaign, he was always running around talking about how close he was to the Obama family, but his name wasn't on the list? I mean, people are going to start asking questions about that, too.

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

MS. MITCHELL:  So besides the congressman being worried about the taint, now he's worried about his relationship with the president-elect.

MR. GREGORY:  Jesse Jackson Jr., the congressman, has denied any wrongdoing or any improper coordination with the Blagojevich administration.  But in the course of this complaint there are--there's a description of a representative of him talking to a representative of Blagojevich, kind of going down that road of what would be required to get the seat.  Is that a problem for him?

MR. TODD:  Well, it, it depends on what your definition of a problem is for, for Jesse Jackson Jr.  You know, is it possible somebody without his permission, you know, went to the governor, that, that he didn't know?  I think that's possible.  The other thing is, OK, he was already not seen as the most politically viable person to put into that seat to hold it statewide, OK? That is why he wasn't on this alleged list that Rahm Emanuel gave.

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

MR. TODD:  They were thinking in pure political terms, who can hold the seat, who can hold it in 2010?  And there was some question.  Jesse Jackson Jr. himself talks about the controversial part of his biography, which is his name.  You know, he said it in that press conference earlier this week.  So he's not in political trouble as far as his congressional seat.  He doesn't appear to have a criminal problem here, and he's not--you know, if he wants to be mayor of Chicago someday I think those ambitions are still there. Statewide ambitions, which were already, I think, a long shot...

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

Mary, you, you--one of the questions that came up this week from a reporter in the press conference with the president-elect is, "What is wrong with politics in Illinois?" But you, in your column, try to put a little perspective to all of this, and this is what you write.  We'll put it up and share it with our viewers.  Called pay to play, which of course is critical of all this.

"Regardless of how we rail against Blagojevich, at the heart of all politics is pay to play.  Yes.  There's a thin line between expectations and shakedown. But do any of us really believe that the people who raise huge sums of money for a particular political candidate aren't expecting something for their efforts?  Do we really believe that a person who is vested with the power to give away a Senate seat isn't going to give it to the person who will somehow do him or her the most good?"

Here's The New York Times this morning, a fresh example of that.  Front page, "A champion of Wall Street reaps the benefits," talking about all of the contributions that Senator Chuck Schumer gets from Wall Street--constituents, yes, and an important business for the country.  Reality check time.

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