'Meet the Press' transcript for Nov. 16, 2008

MR. TOM BROKAW:  Our issues this Sunday:  Can the American car companies survive?  Big trouble for the Big Three.  Stiff opposition on Capitol Hill to a federal bailout for Detroit.  Should America's car companies receive emergency aid or go into bankruptcy?  Two key senators square off:  the co-chair of the Senate Auto Caucus, Democrat Carl Levin of Michigan; and the ranking Republican on the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, Richard Shelby of Alabama.

Then, it's Green Is Universal week at NBC.  What is the future for America with energy independence?  Joining us, the legendary oil man now turning in a new direction, T. Boone Pickens.

Then, insights and analysis on the future of the American economy, jobs, the auto industry and what's ahead for the Obama Cabinet.  Will Hillary Clinton be the new secretary of state?  Our roundtable weighs in:  Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Tom Friedman of The New York Times, Katty Kay of the BBC, NBC News correspondent Andrea Mitchell and Tavis Smiley of PBS and PRI.

But first, the $25 billion auto bailout is facing very tough opposition from Republicans on the Hill and some Democrats as well.  With us this morning. two key parties in those discussions--Carl Levin, senator from Michigan; and Senator Richard Shelby in Alabama this morning, two men on opposite sides of the argument.

Gentlemen, if I can, I'd like to provide some political context this morning with some recent statements.  Here's John Boehner, who is the Republican leader of the House of Representatives:  "Spending billions of dollars of additional federal tax dollars with no promises to reform the root causes of crippling automakers' competitiveness around the world is neither fair to taxpayers nor sound fiscal policy." He's from Ohio, which has a big automotive investment.

"It's time for new management and stringent conditions.  It's Uncle Sam.  It's not Uncle Sucker." That's from Democrat Jim Cooper, a representative from Tennessee.  Remember, the Blue Dogs, a group of fiscally conservative congressional Democrats.

Chris Dodd, who is the Senate chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, says, "I don't know of a single Republican who's willing to support" this bill.

And Jim Manley, speaking for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, said, "We cannot do it without the support of Senate Republicans, who I hope will join us to pass a bill that saves the jobs and protects the livelihoods of millions of hard-working Americans."

Senator Shelby, no one has been more outspoken than you in opposition to all of this.  Are there any conditions that would permit you to vote for a loan or a bailout of some kind for the Detroit Big Three?

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL):  I haven't seen them yet, Tom.  I would--first of all, I think that we would have to see conditions that would fundamentally change the way Detroit does business.  They're not building the right products.  They did at one time.  They've got good workers.  But I don't believe they've got good management.  They don't innovate.  They're a dinosaur, in a sense, and I hate to see this because I would like to see them become lean and, and hungry and innovative.  And if they did and put out the right product, they could survive.  But I don't believe the $25 billion they're talking about will, will make them survive.  It's just postponing the inevitable.

MR. BROKAW:  You have said that this is not a national problem, which stunned a lot of people.  Let us just take you through some of the jobs that are involved here.  Let's begin in the industrial Midwest, if we can.  Most researchers say there are three million jobs nationwide.  As you can see there in Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, Indiana and Ohio there are thousands of jobs that are involved.  And then if you talk just about dealerships across the country, nationwide there are about 740,000 jobs involved with the Big Three in dealerships alone; General Motors, 325,000 jobs in their GM dealers across America.  So, in fact, it is a national problem, isn't it?

SEN. SHELBY:  Well, I don't say it's a national problem.  It could be a national problem.  It's a national concern now.  But it could be a national problem, a big one if we keep putting money--if we put $25 billion in, that's just the beginning.  Look at AIG.  Look at the others.  Then you're going--they're going to want $50 billion more, and it's going to come because the political game is there.  I think it's a mistake.  If--they would be in a lot of people's judgment a lot better off to, to go through Chapter 11 where they could reorganize, get rid of the management, get rid of the boards, the people who've brought them to where they are today.  This is a dead-end, it's a road to nowhere, and it's a big burden on the American taxpayer.

MR. BROKAW:  All right, let's go to Carl Levin, the senator from Michigan who's in Detroit this morning.  There are two schools, I think that you can say, broadly speaking, Senator Levin.  One is do the bailout with some conditions attached, or allow them to go into bankruptcy.  Here's what's gotten the attention of a lot of people.  Rick Wagoner, who is the CEO of General Motors, said he is not prepared to resign in return for government aid.  "I don't think it'd be a very smart move," he said.  "I think our job is to make sure we have the best management team to run GM.  It's not clear to me what purpose would be served."

How can you possibly argue for federal aid to a company that has been led into this difficulty by a man who said he won't resign?

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI):  Well, this is a national problem, first of all, without any question.  We've got at least three million jobs dependent upon this industry surviving.  We've got--this is a Main Street problem.  We've got 10,000 or more dealers.  They, they cover the country in every town of this country.  The auto industry touches millions and millions of lives.  One out of 10 jobs in this country are auto related.  Twenty percent of our retail sales are auto related or automobiles.  So this is a national problem.

Secondly, there is, unlike some of the statements that you read, there is bipartisan support for support for this industry to get them through a very difficult problem, including Senator Voinovich of Ohio who is co-chairman of the task force that you made reference to.  Other countries are supporting their industries through this difficult period.  The European automakers are requesting $56 billion in temporary support, and we expect that they'll be getting it from the European community.  This is not a Big Three problem alone.  This current crisis is a crisis in the economy where there is no credit available to purchase and where people are not buying cars because they are afraid.  They are delaying the major purchases that they need to make because of the uncertainly in the economy.  So this is a...

MR. BROKAW:  But, Senator, the question...

SEN. LEVIN:  ...different issue, this is a different issue from the need to restructure the auto industry.  Finally, on the GM issue, nine of the new models are hybrids for General Motors.  General Motors has twice as many cars, twice as many models that get 30 miles per gallon as any other automaker.  So they have begun the changeover, they've begun the restructuring.  And if it was the difference between getting this kind of support or not, obviously the management should consider resigning.  If the government wants to intrude that much into the operations of a company where it can decide who is the right management and who isn't, then I believe they should consider resigning.

MR. BROKAW:  But if you said that...

SEN. LEVIN:  That should not be...

MR. BROKAW:  ...but if you said that...

SEN. LEVIN:  ...the impediment.

MR. BROKAW:  But, Senator, have you said that directly to Mr. Wagoner?  You say the government...

SEN. LEVIN:  I'd be happy to say that to...

MR. BROKAW:  ...should decide.  The government's going to provide $25 billion of taxpayer money...

SEN. LEVIN:  Fine.

MR. BROKAW:  ...shouldn't they have a say in who is going to be the management going forward?

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