'Meet the Press' transcript for Nov. 9, 2008

MR. BROKAW:  Congressman James Clyburn, Senator Mel Martinez and our political roundtable after this brief station break.

(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW:  We're back, and joined by Senator Mel Martinez and Congressman James Clyburn; one a Republican, the other a Democrat, obviously.

Welcome to both of you.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC):  Oh, thank you for having us.

MR. BROKAW:  I thought I would begin by sharing with our audience and with you as well a Gallup and USA Today poll taken the day after the election, "Does this describe your reaction to Barack Obama being elected president?" Sixty-seven percent of the people said they were proud, 67 percent said they were optimistic, 59 percent said they were excited.  Those are very high numbers.  How do you hold on to that in the face of this deteriorating economy and all the uncertainty that's still ahead of us, Congressman?

REP. CLYBURN:  Well, I think the first thing we have to do is respond to the American people with a economic recovery package that will restore jobs, that will, once again, stand up our infrastructure:  roads, bridges, water, sewage. I think we have to respond by saying to the children we are going to have a state children's health insurance program.  I think we need to respond with a stem cell program, stem cell research.  I think that the campaign told us a whole lot about what's on the minds of the American people, and I think that you keep that excitement by responding immediately to that.  And I think that's why the president-elect made it very clear in his first press conference that he wants an economic recovery package and he would like to have it right now.  And I would hope that the leadership of the Congress and the White House can get together on such a package in the near future.

MR. BROKAW:  We want to get to the specifics in just a moment.

Senator Martinez, what about the Republican Party and keeping its place prominent after this pretty resounding defeat?

SEN. MEL MARTINEZ (R-FL):  Well, the first thing we have to do is to celebrate the moment.  And I think I agree with the sentiment of so many of those people in the polls, this is a historic moment.  It's one that I thought Senator McCain properly recognized in his very gracious concession speech. And so we need to keep that kind of spirit of pulling together and finding common ground.  However, I think the important thing for this new administration and for the leadership in Congress to do is to find the common ground agenda items.  You know, when you look back to Florida, we have a lot of problems in the state of Florida.  Unemployment parallels the national average, in some counties it's 10 percent, which is dramatically high.  Find ways in which we can put people back to work and we can get our economy running again.  Look for that checklist of things where there can be common ground, stay away from those items where, frankly, there'll be division and there'll be rancor and there'll be acrimony.  So look for the common ground, and I think that'll be a prescription for us getting some things done.

MR. BROKAW:  OK, we want to get to those specific things that may divide you more than unite you.  But let's hear, first of all, from President-elect Obama, his first radio address in this new position yesterday, because he kind of laid out a general agenda of what he'd like to achieve.

(Audiotape)

PRES.-ELECT OBAMA:  First, we need a rescue plan for the middle class that invests in immediate efforts to create jobs and provides relief to families that are watching their paychecks shrink and their life savings disappear. Then we'll address the spreading impact of the financial crisis on other sectors of our economy and ensure that the rescue plan that passed Congress is working to stabilize financial markets while protecting taxpayers, helping homeowners, and not unduly rewarding the management of financial firms that are receiving government assistance.  Finally, we will move forward with a set of policies that will grow our middle class and strengthen our economy in the long term.  We can't afford to wait on moving forward on the key priorities that I identified during the campaign, including clean energy, health care, education and tax relief for middle class families.

(End audiotape)

MR. BROKAW:  He did not specifically mention a stimulus program.  There's a good deal of talk about that on Capitol Hill when you come back into session.

Would you be in favor of $100 billion stimulus program at this point, Senator Martinez?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  I think it needs to depend on the specifics that might be included in that program, but I think some sort of stimulus is appropriate. I, I would love to see it focused on, on home ownership, on, on getting back to the basics of what got us into this financial crisis in the first place, which is displaced homeowners, continuing rising foreclosures, things of that nature.  We need to focus it on creating job opportunities for American families that are today out of work and extending unemployment benefits and things of that nature that I think, frankly, are appropriate.  But we need to see what's in the package before we can just sign on.  And I hope, frankly, part of this bipartisan spirit will be to be consulted in how we get to the package, inclusive in how we get to the decisions so that we can move forward in a united way, in a bipartisan way.

MR. BROKAW:  And, Congressman Clyburn, do you think that you're going to have to defer some of the promises that were made in the last year, specifically the big issues like health care and maybe even tax increases on people who are making more than $225,000 a year, given the perilous state of the economy?

REP. CLYBURN:  Well, I think you have to prioritize, and prioritizing means that you take them in order of importance, and you don't have to defer where there's the interest primarily...

MR. BROKAW:  We can just get to it later.

REP. CLYBURN:  Yeah.  Well, I think that there are some things that will be going on as we tackle the big issues.  Other people--I don't think it'll be on one track.  I think that all the tracks will be working.  But you raise to the level of, of public view those big items like infrastructure, job creation.  I really believe that we have done all we need to do for the financial communities with that $700 billion program.  The emphasis at this point has got to be, be on the middle class.  It's got to be on job creation.  It's got to be on stabilizing people's families, restoring dignity.  That kind of excitement will not last if people don't have dignity restored to their homes.

MR. BROKAW:  There is a very urgent matter that is before Washington, and that's what's going to happen to the American automobile industry.

REP. CLYBURN:  Sure.

MR. BROKAW:  The heads of the three companies were down here last week really pleading for help.  Here's a letter that Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, and Harry Reid, the Democratic Senator--Senate leader, has sent to Secretary Paulson asking them to "review the feasibility of providing temporary assistance to the automobile industry during the current financial crisis." They didn't put a number on it.  Would you be in favor of a 10 to $25 billion loan to the American automobile industry in the short term?

REP. CLYBURN:  Well, I don't know if I'd put a number on it, but I am in favor of Secretary Paulson taking a hard look at that package that he has.  I, for one, believe that he's got the authority to move quickly to do something to bring this industry back into the mainstream of our economy.  They are about to drift out to the edge, and I think we need to bring them back in.  I believe he has the authority, I think he ought to move rather quickly to do that, and, and I would support that.

MR. BROKAW:  Senator Martinez, you represent the party of free markets, or it used to be the party of free markets.  Do you think it's important for Chrysler, General Motors and Ford to survive?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  I think...

MR. BROKAW:  Or should we let the markets make that decision?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  No, I think the United States must have an auto industry.  We don't want to see a loss of over a million jobs.  That affects a lot of American families, and so I think, with prudence and with caution, I, I would think that there's something we can do to save that, that aspect of our economy.

MR. BROKAW:  You'd vote for a loan to the American automobile industry?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  Certainly a loan and would have to see what the amount, appropriate amount would be.  But I also hope that it could be part of the $700 billion package.

MR. BROKAW:  That's already been voted?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  That's right.

MR. BROKAW:  It would--it would not be in addition to that.

SEN. MARTINEZ:  Not in--I think as part of that package and within the authority of that package, I think it's possible for the secretary of the Treasury to direct a loan to that--to, to those entities.  And you know, by the way, we just did 25 billion in loans to them just a couple of months ago. So that shouldn't be overlooked.  We've helped them...

MR. BROKAW:  But they're running out of money fast.  I mean, it's possible that General Motors could run out of money by June of next year given the cash that they're burning through at this time.

SEN. MARTINEZ:  But there's also a limit to what government can do to a failing industry.  There's got to be some things that they do to restore the confidence of the people that might invest in their company.

MR. BROKAW:  Congressman Clyburn, there's already a pretty spirited debate that is developing within your party, as you know.  You have advised a pragmatic approach which you call "evolution, not revolution," that got a quick response from your good friend Charles Rangel, who's the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.  "`He's a national leader, Clyburn,' House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel of New York snapped embodying the views of liberals who want to move fast on the most ambitious version of Obamanomics possible.  `I'm thinking of his constituents, and he doesn't have the slightest clue about what he's talking about.' Rangel doesn't want to hear talk of containing the deficit.  `For God's sakes,' he said, `don't ask me where the money will come from.  I'm going to the same place that Paulson went.'"

REP. CLYBURN:  Well, I think...

MR. BROKAW:  You going to get something done with that attitude?

REP. CLYBURN:  Well, I think if you go to same place where Paulson went, you'll find that the, the coffers are rather empty.  I think that what we have to do is, Senator Obama, now President-elect, made it very clear during the campaign that he will govern from the center.  It may at times be center right, sometimes center left, but always the center.  I think that we have made significant mistakes in the past by lurching too far to the right or too far to the left.  We cannot have as an antecedent for far right to go far left.  We have to bring things back to the center.  We saw what's happened with deregulation.  We say, well, we "overregulated." So what--how do you respond?  No regulation.  That's not the antecedent for overregulation.  We have to bring things back to center.  We have to find consensus, and we have to govern from that point.  And so Charlie and I have talked since that.  I think the cameras caught him at a--an opportune time.

MR. BROKAW:  Senator Martinez, I want to raise with you one of the issues that I suspect you may have been thinking of when you said we don't want to get involved right away in those issues that could divide us.

SEN. MARTINEZ:  Right.

MR. BROKAW:  Here's Senator Edward Kennedy today in The Washington Post pressing hard, very hard, for doing something about national health care. "The cost will be substantial, but the need for reform is too great to be deflected or delayed." Will the Republicans go along with the idea of doing something about national healthcare reform in the first year?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  What we have to do as Republicans is not just be against what Senator Kennedy puts forward.  We have to be ready with alternatives.  We have to offer solutions.  What is unacceptable is for 40 million Americans to be without health insurance.  So we, as Republicans, we need to come up with a market solutions, accompanied by government, to deal with these kinds of problems that Americans are facing today.  What is unacceptable is to say, "That's not a problem if 40 million Americans don't have health insurance or have no place to go for health care." We've got to be concerned about it, but we've got to come up with alternative solutions that are market oriented, that are, that are going to work for the American people, and not create a bigger government and single-payer type system, which I don't think ultimately would work.

MR. BROKAW:  Congressman Clyburn, can you do that simultaneously with fixing the economy in the first year?

REP. CLYBURN:  Absolutely.  The first thing we've got to do in, in January is to pass a student--I mean, the state children's health insurance program. That ought to be the first thing.  That ought to be the entree to universal access to health care.  Then I think we ought to look at Medicaid and Medicare and see what to do about people living on fixed incomes as a, as a second step.  And I really believe that this ought to be fleshed out in full by looking at our community healthcare programs.  These programs have been around for a long time, people accept them as a part of their everyday lives.  They are much more preventive, and, and President-elect Obama has talked about having a healthcare program that is preventive rather than curing illnesses. I believe that we have the framework already there for a universal access program that will, in fact, be market-driven, that will have partnerships. And we ought to look at community health, community healthcare programs.

MR. BROKAW:  Would a massive overhaul of the American healthcare system, can that get done in the first two years of this administration, or even in the first term, given the state of the economy?

REP. CLYBURN:  But the...

SEN. MARTINEZ:  Well, it, it just can't be.  I mean, this is precisely what we should not be doing.  SCHIP was one of the most divisive issues of the last Congress, where there was no consensus, there was no common ground.  To bring that back up now would be to restart the fights of the past, and we need to move past that.  We cannot deal with health care in the current crisis mode that we're in.  Senator Obama was correct in the priorities that he outlined. We need to deal with the current economic crises.

And by the way, Tom, we've not talked about foreign issues, and there's also a big bad world out there.  We saw the very aggressive statement that the Russian president made immediately upon President-elect Obama winning.  So we're not going to be able to work in a vacuum.  And to start out with health care I think is a big mistake.

REP. CLYBURN:  Well, I beg to differ.  We didn't have--that's not a divisive program.  We passed SCHIP in the Congress.  The president vetoed it.  So just because the president vetoed it doesn't mean that there's not massive support for it.  We passed this thing with a big vote.  I really believe that we have got to do this.  And I don't believe there needs to be a massive overhaul of the healthcare problem in order to do it.  We ought to do that incrementally, starting off with the children, going to people with fixed on--fixed incomes, and then take a look at these community-based healthcare programs that are universally accepted.  And that would not call for a massive overhaul.  I don't think you really need a massive overhaul.

SEN. MARTINEZ:  Well, if it's not a massive overhaul, perhaps we can deal with a partial SCHIP-type issue.

MR. BROKAW:  Senator Martinez, as you know, politics is about keeping score. I know this is tough for you to hear, probably, but you were 0-for-3 last Tuesday.  You're a Republican; you are from Florida, that went to the Democrats; and you're Hispanic, or Latino in some parts of this country, and the Hispanics went overwhelmingly for the Democrats this time.  Jill Lawrence wrote in USA TODAY:  "`If the Republicans don't make their peace with Hispanic voters, they're not going to win presidential elections anymore.  The math just isn't there.'" That's according to Simon Rosenberg, head of the NDN, a Democratic group that studies Hispanic voters." How do you get back to the Hispanics?

SEN. MARTINEZ:  Governor Jeb Bush--former Governor Jeb Bush last week made a comment that if Republicans don't figure it out and do the math that we're going to be relegated to minority status.  I've been preaching this for a long time to my colleagues within my party.  I think that the very divisive rhetoric of the immigration debate set a very bad tone for our brand as Republicans.  The fact of the matter is I think in Florida there was not a great ideological shift, but I think there was plenty of room for improvement in how that state was looked upon.

The fact of the matter is that Hispanics are going to be a more and more vibrant part of the electorate, and the Republican Party had better figure out how to talk to them.  We had a very dramatic shift between what President Bush was able to do with Hispanic voters, where he won 44 percent of them, and what happened to Senator McCain.  Senator McCain did not deserve what he got.  He was one of those that valiantly fought, fought for immigration reform, but there were voices within our party, frankly, which if they continue with that kind of rhetoric, anti-Hispanic rhetoric, that so much of it was heard, we're going to be relegated to minority status.

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