'Meet the Press' transcript for Oct. 5, 2008

MR. BROKAW: We’re back, and we have a very full roundtable this morning because we’ve got a lot to talk about. We have Gwen Ifill, who is here from PBS and fresh from the vice presidential debate; David Gregory of NBC News; Chuck Todd of NBC News; and David Yepsen from The Des Moines Register—a lot of us believe that he only lived during the month of January when the Iowa caucuses, but it turns out he continues on into the fall as well; and Peggy Noonan, from the Wall Street Journal.

Peggy, let’s begin with you. You said on NBC the other night, when you were looking at the vice presidential debate, Sarah Palin “killed,” to use that showbiz phrase. And then you wrote, “As far as Mrs. Palin was concerned, Gwen Ifill was not there, and Joe Biden was not there. Sarah and the camera were there. This was classic ‘talk over the heads of the media straight to the people,’ and it is a long time since I’ve seen it done so well, though so transparently. There were moments when she seemed to be doing an infomercial pitch for charm in politics. But it was an effective infomercial.”

An effective infomercial for Governor Palin or for the ticket? And did she convince the American people she’s qualified to be a heartbeat away?

MS. PEGGY NOONAN: I—I’ll be frank. She convinced the American people that though they had seen her crater in interview after interview in the previous few weeks before that debate, that she was capable of coming forward and simply debating, simply going forth on her own. I think she showed that she is a woman of a great and natural competence about the show business of politics, if you will, the ability to look over the camera, to think that the camera is your friend. All of that stuff. There are questions about other areas.

MR. BROKAW: Well, are you satisfied about those questions, the other areas, because that’s really the critical part of it. The show business part of it can be learned...

MS. NOONAN: Sure.

MR. BROKAW: ...and demonstrated by a lot of people.

MS. NOONAN: Oh, but some people are naturals. She is a natural. I, I will tell you, I, I feel increased concern about her, I think, what she thinks of populism, as her populist approach. There are two ways—you know, her stuff about “I’m Main Street, you’re not, you’re the elite. I’m not the East Coast, I’m Joe Six-Pack.” She actually says, “I’m the Joe Six-Pack candidate.” This left me thinking, “Gosh, would Lincoln say, ‘I represent the backwoods types?’ Would FDR say, ‘Yeah, the New York aristocracy deserves another moment in the sun. Vote for me.’” It—there’s something weird about it. But there’s also something, for me, concerning populism as a tactic is justified often in politics. “I need this program, the people want it.” Populism as a strategy, “We’re the good guys, you’re the bad guys,” is not good, and, and if that’s the road they’re going, that’s not a good road to be on. It’s not helpful to the country.

MR. BROKAW: Peggy Noonan, meet Dave Yepsen, who had this to say in The Des Moines Register about the debate the other night: “Sarah Palin came up short in [the] vice presidential debate. The face-off ... was mostly about her—about her qualifications for the job, whether she could do something to fix her image as a lightweight and whether she could put the Republican ticket back on a winning trajectory. The Alaska governor failed.” So sayeth David Yepsen.

You represent Main Street America out there in Iowa. How’s she doing in Main Street America?

MR. DAVID YEPSEN: Oh, I think, I think she’s doing all right. I mean, I think people wonder about her competence to be president. But I don’t think this is about Sarah Palin, this is about the top of the ticket. And you go out to Main Street America and people are concerned about the economy. They—this isn’t about sideshow issues. This isn’t about William Ayers. This is about a job. This is about the future. This is about putting gas in the tank and, and holding on to your house. And, and I think the proof that Sarah Palin didn’t really do all that well in that debate comes from the post polls, the polls that were done afterwards by a lot of reputable news organizations, who found that Joe Biden won, who find that John McCain is still trailing Barack Obama in this race. I mean, it was not a game changing performance, and, and for that reason I think she came up short.

MR. BROKAW: In—this country has gone through a traumatic experience in the last 10 days, a lot of complexity, a lot of these financial transactions that are occurring, a lot of questions about whether it’s in the best interest of the country long term and what happens next. In Iowa, as you were talking to people out there, how did they see what was going on in Washington and the magnitude of the bailout that was required here?

MR. YEPSEN: They’re, they’re angry. I mean, I, I think, I think people are unhappy about this. They don’t like what they see and, and, and yet some—there is some recognition that we got to do something. But what’s going on out there, as one, Tom, who once wrote John McCain’s political obit—I’m not willing to do it again, there’s still 30 days to go—but it is true that in rural America the, the Republican brand is not doing as well as it once was. McCain still leads in, in—all across the country in rural parts, but it’s not by this margin that he needs. And so I think that’s, that’s the problem. And I think the, the Washington bailout didn’t help him in that regard.

MR. BROKAW: We want to talk about the vice presidential debate. And as I introduce this next segment, Gwen, I want you to remember that imitation is the sincerest form of...

MS. GWEN IFILL: Oh, no.

MR. BROKAW: ...flattery.

MS. IFILL: Oh, no.

MR. BROKAW: This is from “Saturday Night Live”...

MS. IFILL: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: ...just last night, the vice presidential debate. Let’s take a look at that and get the audience reaction and your reaction to it as well, if we can.

(Clip shown from “Saturday Night Live”)

MS. IFILL: I got to say, being played by Queen Latifah is not a bad thing.

MR. DAVID GREGORY: That’s pretty good. That’s pretty good, yeah.

MS. IFILL: You know, this is OK.

MR. BROKAW: There you go. When she said—and you asked her a question and she completely ignored it...

MS. IFILL: More than ignored it.

MR. BROKAW: More than ignored it and said, you know...

MS. IFILL: She blew me off, I think, is the technical term.

MR. BROKAW: ...”I’m just going to talk directly to the American people.”

MS. IFILL: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: Tell us about what happened beforehand about what the rules were and what the understanding you thought you had with the candidates who would be onstage.

MS. IFILL: The understanding was that we were going to have a debate. And one of the interesting things about debates that people forget, especially with this one, there was so much obsession about Sarah Palin, is that there are two people on the stage. And their job—and you—you’ll—you know this, you’re doing this Tuesday night—are to debate each other. The moderator’s job is to control their debate. If they have decided, as Joe Biden decided that he was going to debate John McCain, and she decided she was going to give a stump speech to the American people, there’s very little a moderator can do other than say, “No, no, no, listen, I asked a question. Please, please answer.” So, so I just—I knew going in that they all had their goals for that debate. I was taken, going in, it could now be said, by how many of the questions that people volunteered to me were all about her. There was 99 percent, I would say, was all about her. Ninety-nine percent of the analyses afterwards were about her. It was if Joe Biden wasn’t part of this deal. And if she wasn’t challenged on the things she said that were not completely correct, or she wasn’t challenged on changing the subject and then answering the questions by her competitor, I had another job to do at the table.

So, I, I—you know, they both came out there with their jobs to do. Many of the American people who are not as obsessed by the idea of Sarah Palin on the stage by herself, as a lot of us were, looked at that and thought, “Let’s weigh these two,” which is what you do in debates.

MR. BROKAW: David Gregory.

MR. GREGORY: I think what’s interesting is that she made a decision that she was going to be rhetorical and not substantive on the issues. Her primary job was to excite the conservative base, to make an appeal to, whether it’s women or a populist appeal. She did those things. I think she took herself off the table as an issue that could bring down the McCain campaign. She neutralized that and, as David said, gets our focus back to the top of the ticket. But, I think Gwen is right, Joe Biden made a decision not to take her on...

MS. IFILL: Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY: ...and smiled so broadly, at some points, you know, you wondered what was going to happen next. But, you know, he chose to train his fire on John McCain. She chose to, to ignore a lot of the substantive aspects of the debate and speak right to the American people. That’s where she’s winning. She has a lot of charm, a lot of charisma, and that’s working for her. But, again, I think the, the primary objective that was achieved was to, to neutralize this as an issue for McCain, so now returns to the real focus here, which is the economy. And I don’t know that that competence question on big issues, on a crisis, on being a heartbeat away, was necessarily answered yet.

MS. IFILL: I actually think, David—I just want to add—David’s point about transparency is important. She was transparent in her intentions, when she said, “I won’t listen to the moderator, I won’t answer the questions.”

MS. NOONAN: Absolutely.

MS. IFILL: That allowed people at home to say, “Oh, she’s not answering the questions tonight, what is she trying to do?”

MR. BROKAW: Chuck Todd, as you look at all the polls and take all the soundings, especially in the battleground states, obviously, Governor Palin electrified the Republican ticket when she was first chosen with her dynamic appearance in St. Paul. And, a lot—she’s been filling up, as John McCain has been saying, all of the rallies, 20,000 people. But is she moving the needle for the ticket? Is she pulling people in Ohio or in Wisconsin, the white working-class male, or the white working-class female, for that matter, into the McCain camp?

MR. TODD: Well, three weeks ago she did. Three weeks ago Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, those industrial Midwestern states were more in play. We saw a little bit of movement, or at least claims of movement, by the McCain folks in—even in Iowa, perhaps even in Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico. But I think what you have to look at is, is something that, that David brought up, which is the collective, now, of these debates. We’ve had two of them. We had this economic bailout, which may be the more dominating story. Where the race was before the debate started, and now, where the race is right now, halfway between, and Obama’s lead has grown, not shrunk. Places that she should be electrifying the base and are not now: Missouri, Indiana, North Carolina, three states that the assumption was three weeks ago, they—she put those states away, that there’s no more chance that the, the Republican ticket’s going to lose those. They’re now back into play. You have to argue that’s the economy trumping culture right now in those three states. And now there’s a dwindling number of game-changing moments. There’s now only two more debates that McCain has to catch up. What happens if we’re in the same position right now...

MS. IFILL: Yeah.

MR. TODD: ...after the last debate? What’s he got left where a hundred million people will gather around the television to assess these two candidates?

MR. BROKAW: And, Peggy Noonan, as you know, the McCain campaign has signaled pretty strongly they’re going to strain—change their strategy. We have a quote from The Weekly Standard. Bill Kristol, who is the editor, is, of course, in the College of Cardinals, he’s the Pope when it comes to writing about what’s going on in the conservative movement. He says in The Weekly Standard, “More important is the negative message. The McCain campaign has to convince 51 percent of the voters they can’t trust Barack Obama to be our next president. ... Character is a legitimate issue. Obama hasn’t shown much in the way of leadership or political courage, and he’s consorted with dubious figures. It’s fair to ask whether Barack Obama is personally trustworthy enough to be president, and the McCain campaign shouldn’t be intimidated from going there.” We already heard on this broadcast, Senator Palin yesterday, raising the association that he had with William Ayers, who is a former member of the Weathermen, a very radical group from the ‘60s and ‘70s, who is now a school reformer in Illinois. Is this a smart strategy, in your judgment, for the McCain campaign?

MS. NOONAN: You know what, this has been a long campaign. We are in the last month. It is still close. Whoever’s rising or, or, or falling, it’s really close. And some part of me fears they’re going to open up the gates of hell on this one. It seems to me there is trench warfare out there. The left—there’s a huge middle in America, but there’s a left. They think they’re going to win, and they’re getting meaner than ever. The right fears they’re going to lose, they’re getting meaner than ever. I would hate to see this descend into this, this—“I’ll kill—I’ll tear your throat out” kind of stuff. I think that would be harmful. I think we are at a unique and dangerous...

MR. YEPSEN: But, Tom...

MS. NOONAN: ...moment in history, and it’s the last thing we need. And I don’t speak as a sissy; I’m trying to speak as an adult.

MR. BROKAW: Yeah. David.

MR. YEPSEN: There’s a danger, Tom, that it backfires.

MS. NOONAN: Yeah. Yeah.

MR. YEPSEN: I mean, clearly John McCain is worried. They’re, they’re on defense. The best proof of that, Tom, is, is what is Sarah Palin doing this afternoon? She is in Omaha, Nebraska. Now, when a Republican vice presidential candidate has to go to defend one congressional district—they vote their electors by congressional district--30 days out, it tells you they’re worried. And so what, what I see happening in the McCain campaign, with all this talk about William Ayers, is this sort of a sense of desperation. It could get carried away, and it’s irrelevant to people in mainstream America, in middle America. You know, William Ayers, what do they care about—how is that going to put gas in the tank or get somebody a job? I think it runs the risk of coming off as irrelevant.

MR. GREGORY: But just to show you how...

MS. NOONAN: And it runs the risk of being demoralizing.

MR. GREGORY: Yeah.

MS. NOONAN: Forgive me, David. But in a serious national way, don’t do that.

MR. BROKAW: Although, before we go on with this, maybe what the McCain campaign is reading the last draft of the latest Time magazine-CNN poll—and this shows up in a number of polls—Senator Obama still shows vulnerability on the question of what kind of president he would be. Fifty percent of those polled said Obama gives a great speech, but doesn’t have other qualifications; 46 percent disagreed with that statement. But that’s in a poll in which Senator Obama did very well overall.

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