'Meet the Press' transcript for Sept. 28, 2008

MR. BROKAW: Congressman Udall, let me, let me see if I can move it along in some other areas. Let me begin. A lot of this has to do with symbolism, obviously. You think that the Democrats should remove Charles Rangel as the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. He is the powerful chairman of the tax policy committee, and it turns out that he's living in rent-stablilized apartments in New York, he didn't pay taxes on a condominium that he owns in the Dominican Republican that he got with a favorable loan. Wouldn't it be a good idea for the Democrats to step up, however popular and powerful he is, and said, "Mr. Rangel, you should step aside for awhile while we're going through this economic crisis. Everybody has to pay a penalty"?

REP. UDALL: Chairman Rangel has served the country admirably and heroically. He was honored and received medals in the Korean War, Tom. The ethics process is unfolding. Congressman Rangel's called three different times for that to occur. He's been forthcoming. I think it's his decision whether he steps down or not as the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.

MR. BROKAW: Would you prefer for him to step down?

REP. UDALL: I think it would be helpful if Charles Rangel stepped down, but he's served the country well. We need his expertise, and I know whatever happens, Tom, he will do right by the country.

MR. BROKAW: Let me ask you something, if I can, Congressman Schaffer. You said recently that the federal government is raking in a bunch of money right now on the backs of energy companies. What did you mean by that?

REP. SCHAFFER: Well, first of all, Charles Rangel admitted that he didn't pay federal taxes. If he's the tax...

MR. BROKAW: No, I know, I know. Listen...

REP. SCHAFFER: Listen, if you're a member of the House and the head of your tax writing committee admits he doesn't pay taxes, you ought to have the courage to stand up and say he needs to go. But secondly, with respect to--it's absolutely, it's absolutely correct that the dramatic increase in revenue for the federal government right now is a function, partially a function, of the dramatic increase in energy prices. Those prices result in the marginal tax rate on--or marginal profit rate on the energy industry generally is about 8 percent right now, so as the price climbs, that 8 percent then creates an extraordinary amount of profit. That profit is taxed, and so you're correct. I can't remember the statistics offhand, but the windfall to the federal government as a result of high energy prices is what the government is raking in right now and not spending it particularly well.

REP. UDALL: (Unintelligible)

MR. BROKAW: But when you use the phrase "on the backs of the energy companies," you sound like they're poor, beleaguered companies that the federal government is taking advantage of.

REP. SCHAFFER: Oh, absolutely not. No, they're not taking advantage of them at all. Eight percent--an 8 percent marginal profit is not too bad in the American context today. There are other industries that make more, insurance industry is making more, some in healthcare are making more of a marginal profit. Eight percent is somewhere in the middle of the economic performance of industry sectors. But 8 percent on top of $1, you know, up to $1.20 per gallon, what is it today, about $1--or $107 per barrel, is--represents extraordinary profits and so the federal government is raking in funds as a result of this energy crisis, which leads me to the conclusion that you look for reasons why people in Washington, like Mark, have fought to drive energy prices up. That's one of the possible motivations.

REP. UDALL: That's laughable.

REP. SCHAFFER: That this pays off government.

REP. UDALL: That's laughable. Congressman Schaffer's an oil and gas executive. Of course he's going to take the side of the oil and gas industry. Forty billion dollars in profits in one quarter, I think to most Americans is pretty excessive and pretty handsome. If you want, Tom, maintenance of the existing energy policy we have in this country, which is focused on oil and gas development of fossil fuels, which we do need, then you ought to hire Congressman Schaffer.

REP. SCHAFFER: That's not true.

REP. UDALL: If you want a comprehensive...

REP. SCHAFFER: I'll change it dramatically.

REP. UDALL: If you want a comprehensive plan, if you want to throw the kitchen sink at this where we take a fresh look at nuclear and we develop clean coal supplies and we invest deeply in renewables and in conservation, we also drill responsibly, I'm going to be the senator that's going to pursue that. I've been working on this my entire career in the Congress. Congressman Schaffer's an oil and gas exec, that's all he knows, that's what he's going to promote.

MR. BROKAW: Let me see if we can get to Iraq, very quickly. Congressman Schaffer, you have said a definition of success is that if Iraq on its own has security, a police department that functions, and a political and an economy that is stable, you said, "It's not going to be in the next two or three years, most likely." Do you think that the American troops will be there five years from now in Iraq?

REP. SCHAFFER: Hard to say. I hope that. Or if they are, I hope that some, at some level that it's not, not involved in tactical strategy on a day-to-day basis--or not on tactical involvement on a day-to-day basis, but strategic. But I'd hoped that we'd have American troops out even sooner. That statement you read, I think is maybe even over a year old already and it was before there was a clear indication that the surge has worked. I am optimistic, however, that we are achieving those objectives right now. I'm already talking about troop deployments, already discussing even moving up the deployments in January of possibly three brigades and moving--withdrawing three brigades. That would allow us to redeploy them in places like Afghanistan and elsewhere where they're needed or bring them home and just save money.

MR. BROKAW: A year ago you said that the surge was a tragic mistake. Were you wrong?

REP. UDALL: Tom, it's time to leave Iraq. It's time to leave Iraq responsibly.

MR. BROKAW: Were you wrong on the surge?

REP. UDALL: The surge has helped. There are other factors in Iraq that have been helpful. The Al Anbar Awakening, Muqtada al-Sadr's call for a cease-fire. There's ethnic cleansing to a great extent now that you don't hear that story. Sunni and Shia do not live together anymore in places like Baghdad. But whatever the situation was then, Tom, it's now time to leave Iraq in an honorable and responsible way. As a member of the Armed Services Committee, I know how stretched our military is. I also know we haven't finished the job in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. Bin Laden is still at large. I also know we have no capacity to defend our own country or to respond to any other emergencies all over the world. It's time to turn Iraq back over to the Iraqis and refocus on a tough and a smart national security policy.

MR. BROKAW: Very quickly, Colorado's a battleground state. Give me the numbers on November 4, who finishes first and by how much in the presidential race? First, Mr. Udall, quickly.

REP. UDALL: I think it's Obama 50, 47.

REP. SCHAFFER: It's going to be 51 McCain and Obama, who believes that the surge has worked, is going to around 40, 48 or 49.

MR. BROKAW: Thank you very much.

REP. UDALL: The country's ready for change, Tom.

MR. BROKAW: Congressman Bob Schaffer, Congressman Mark Udall. Thanks very much for being with us.

REP. UDALL: Thank you.

MR. BROKAW: We'll be keeping track of this campaign, and of course, we'll be reporting the results on Election Night. Thanks for being with us here on MEET THE PRESS. The first of our series on Senate Debates.

Coming up next, former President Bill Clinton talks politics and policy and shares his thoughts on John McCain and Barack Obama as individuals and as candidates. That's next, only on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW: We're back here on MEET THE PRESS, and on Thursday this past week I sat down for a wide-ranging interview with former President Bill Clinton at his annual Clinton Global Initiative gathering in New York, and I began by asking him about any concerns he may have about private philanthropy drying up in this financial crisis.

FMR. PRES. BILL CLINTON: Well, right now it isn't drying up. I think right now a lot of the kind of the people who do this work are inherently optimistic and deeply committed, and they see this, our Global Initiative and their commitment to the world and in America as a way of building confidence again.

MR. BROKAW: You think that this financial crisis will be, in a way, a game changer for the American political culture.

PRES. CLINTON: I, I think it could be a game changer in a number of ways. First, it could change the political culture. I think that's important. I think it's important that you have the Republicans and Democrats in Congress asking the same good questions, good questions about if we're going to put up $700 billion, how will it be spent? To help homeowners, to give the taxpayers a chance to get their money back, to be transparent? I think that's important.

I also believe it will have beneficial long-term economic consequences. That is, you've got Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley going into the bank holding company act, which means that they'll still be able to issue stock, they'll still be able to have some speculation, as there always is, but there, there--you are not going to have these crazy binges of sub-subprime mortgages or the derivatives, because people now recognize all over again what they had to learn in the depression and two or three times since, which is markets, if unaccountable at the margins, will self-destruct. They will cannibalize themselves. So I think we've learned that. Listen, this--if we can just get out of this thing now and get the show back on the road, we will have learned quite a lot that's good for us.

MR. BROKAW: You know, we like to keep track of records here on MEET THE PRESS, as you're well aware of. We looked at this interview that Tim did with you a year ago at the Clinton Initiative--Global Initiative, and at that time you predicted that John McCain would be the Republican nominee, at a time when a lot of people thought he was...

PRES. CLINTON: He was dead.

MR. BROKAW: ...toast, in political terms. But you said as well, at that time, "I've disagreed with him, but I have admired him." And then to Maria Bartiromo last week you said, "I have never concealed my admiration and affection for Senator McCain. I think he's a great man. But I think on the issues, that matter to our future, the Obama-Biden team is more right."

PRES. CLINTON: I do believe that. I think Senator Obama has shown a remarkable ability to learn and grow in this campaign. He always was highly intelligent and always a very good politician. He, he got the change--the fundamental change in, in the calendar of this Democratic primary process of which we were engaged, his energy program kept getting better through the campaign, his healthcare program kept getting better. I, I, I think what you want in a president at a time like this is somebody with good instincts who generally starts in a right position and then just keeps getting better and that's what he's done.

MR. BROKAW: Would you use the same words for him that you have used for Senator McCain, that you admire him and that you think he's a good...

PRES. CLINTON: I certainly...

MR. BROKAW: ...and that he's a great man?

PRES. CLINTON: Well, I don't, look, I had my first conversation with him in my entire life in Harlem.

MR. BROKAW: You had never talked to him before that meeting.

PRES. CLINTON: No, I'd talked to him, but always in passing. I did a fundraiser for him when he ran for the Senate in 2004. I saw him briefly at Senator Kennedy's 75th birthday party. I had always, you know, I always--Hillary's the one who told me to go help him. She said, "This guy's got real skills. He's got almost unlimited potential." And I--she--so I did and I've always thought he was a really commanding presence. What I mean by saying that about McCain is, you know, most people would've been broken by what he went through. Oh, we would've been happy just to give him an "atta boy" and a medal and let him wander through life. I, I think his greatness is that he keeps trying to come back to service without ever asking people to cut him any slack or feel sorry for him or any of that stuff because he was a POW. But I, I genuinely, you know, I am developing a really good relationship with Senator Obama and I certainly admire him. And I know he saw and imagined the way this thing could develop, this political year and this, and this economic situation in a way that is left him in a position of leadership that he's in now. And I think that the rest of us should admire that. That's a big part of leadership, being able to sense, as well as see the future.

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