'Meet the Press' transcript for Sept. 14, 2008

MR. TOM BROKAW:  Our issues this Sunday:  Obama sharpens his attacks to try to combat the McCain campaign's renewed energy and the tightening poll numbers.  And seven years ago America was attacked, our national security forever altered.  Which candidate is better equipped to handle the ongoing war on terror?

Joining us, the senior senator from New York, Obama supporter Chuck Schumer; and the man who was mayor of New York City on that fateful day in 2001, McCain supporter Rudy Giuliani.

Then, a look at the debate and tensions inside the Bush administration and the Defense Department during the darkest days of the war in Iraq.  From The Washington Post's Bob Woodward, author of the new book "The War Within:  A Secret White House History 2006-2008."

Plus, we'll have an update on the shifting battleground in the race for the White House from NBC News political director Chuck Todd.

But first, joining us now, representing the Obama campaign, the senior senator from New York, Senator Chuck Schumer.

Senator, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY):  Morning.

MR. BROKAW:  I think it's fair to say the country is following this campaign like a horseplayer at the Kentucky Derby.  They're reading the charts every day...

SEN. SCHUMER:  Yeah.

MR. BROKAW:  ...they're looking for any tips that they can find.  So we thought we would begin by sharing with our audience and with you, as well, some of the latest polls that show--here's the matchup, according to Newsweek right now.  They show it as a dead heat.  But the most interesting numbers, really, as you know, come in what we call the internals.  The NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, "Who has the strong leadership qualities needed to be president of the United States?" John McCain has jumped up to 48 percent from 42 percent in July.  Barack Obama has slid back, despite having a very impressive convention appearance.  He slid back to 26 percent.  "Who's knowledgeable and experienced to be able to handle the presidency?" John McCain, again, has jumped up from 53 percent to 54 percent; and Barack Obama in that very critical issue has fallen back from 19 percent to 15 percent.

So many of our viewers and so many people who have been polled just don't think that he's ready to lead in a dangerous world even after going through some 20 debates and nine months of primaries.  Isn't that the single most significant challenge that he has before him?

SEN. SCHUMER:  I don't think so.  I think Barack Obama will show that he's ready to lead.  But far and away, the most fundamental question that will determine this economy, and the numbers would be quite reversed, is who can help the middle class out of the economic troubles that they're in.  The average middle-class person, even during seven years of George Bush prosperity, so to speak, went down in average income according to Professor Elizabeth Warren from 48,000 to 46,000.  You add buying power, it's down to 41 or 42.

George--John McCain's policies on taxes, education, health care, energy, the big meat-and-potato issues, are exactly the same as George Bush's.  Barack Obama represents change.  As we go through this campaign, because most people are going to really begin to focus now, that is what's going to give Barack Obama the lead.  Now, he'll have to show that he can handle foreign policy. But again, he has a big leg-up.  Iraq was the biggest mistake George Bush made.  If anything, John McCain is to the right of George Bush on Iraq.

MR. BROKAW:  Let's take a look at some of those middle-class voters, if we can, that you just referred to.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Sure.

MR. BROKAW:  Here's some of the internals in the Newsweek poll.  For example, white women.  John McCain has a commanding lead among white women, 53 to 37 percent.

We want to take you now to the AP poll.  This is the latest poll from the Associated Press and GFK.  McCain has a 13 point lead on senior citizens, and he has the same lead among males.  Among rural voters, he's up by 23 percent. These are middle-class voters in rural areas, and a large part of the Obama strategy is to try to win in areas like North Dakota and Montana and the Rocky Mountain West, including the state of Colorado.  He has significant work to do--to be done there.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Yes, but I think the McCain campaign, which did, did a good of sort of turning around the battleship at the convention, going from experience to change, there's a fundamental flaw.  John McCain and Sarah Palin do not represent change.  They are, particularly on domestic issues but also on foreign policy, a continuation of George Bush's policies.  And as the voters learn that--they'll learn them in the debates, they'll learn them now as the excitement of the conventions subsides--I, I think Barack Obama is going to--he's even now in the overall polls--he will break into a substantial lead. The kind of sort of nasty, small-bore, little attacks, they work decently well when America's happy, when America's satisfied, as it was in 2004 and 2000. They're not going to work now because the average middle-class person in America wants change.  McCain and Palin do not represent change.  Obama and Biden do.  And we're glad.  Actually, the critics will look back a month from now and say a big mistake of the McCain campaign was to switch the battlefield to change because that is Obama-Biden's strong suit.

MR. BROKAW:  All right.  Let's continue with some of the challenges before your candidate.  In the Associated Press poll, McCain was up 9 points on principles and values closest to the voters that were questioned.  That's the kind of thing that's very hard to turn around with an effective speech.  It really speaks to the discomfort a lot of people have with his background and who he is.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Well, again, I think that they have to get to know him.  I'm not quite sure that your average voter, the primary voters pay a lot of attention to the primaries.  It's just at the conventions people tune in. Both parties had very good conventions.  I think it evened things up.  But again, I, I cannot reiterate, my experience in politics tells me when people are unhappy with their economic situation, just as in '92, "It's the economy, stupid," and they are not going to vote for continuation.  John McCain, Governor Palin have not differentiated themselves from George Bush on any major economic issue.

MR. BROKAW:  Senator, here's another test for any campaign.  In the Newsweek survey they asked the question, "Do you strongly support your candidate?"

SEN. SCHUMER:  Right.

MR. BROKAW:  Back in the summer, John McCain had only 39 percent in terms of enthusiastic support.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Right.

MR. BROKAW:  That's jumped up to 71 percent.  Obama has made a gain, but it's only about 6 percent.  The fact is that Senator McCain got a much bigger bounce out of his convention did--than did Senator Obama, for all the theatrics at the football stadium.

SEN. SCHUMER:  And it's still an even race, and I hate to keep reiterating, as this campaign unfolds, I think, I think in a certain sense, the McCain-Palin campaign has peaked.  They had all the excitement.  Everyone's excited that for the first time the Republican Party chose a woman candidate. But the fundamentals matter in a race like this, and they don't have the fundamentals.  You cannot, you cannot win an election if it's premised on a fundamental mistruth, which is that they are change.  They are not change from George Bush.

MR. BROKAW:  Did you watch Charles Gibson's, Charlie Gibson's interview with Governor Sarah Palin?

SEN. SCHUMER:  No, I read it later.  I did not watch it.

MR. BROKAW:  Here's an interesting exchange they had about your friend Hillary Clinton, the woman you supported in the Democratic primaries.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Yes, I did.

(Videotape, Friday)

MR. CHARLIE GIBSON:  I, I saw you quoted somewhere as speaking rather admiringly of, of Mrs. Clinton, Senator Clinton...

GOV. SARAH PALIN:  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.

MR. GIBSON:  ...during the primary campaign.  Do you think Obama should've picked her?

GOV. PALIN:  I think he's regretting not picking her now.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW:  He's regretting not picking Hillary Clinton.  And then here is what Joe Biden, who was his choice, had to say about Hillary Clinton in one of his appearances.

(Videotape, Wednesday)

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE):  Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW:  There's Joe Biden saying that she's more qualified than he is. I thought the test was you always picked the person who is most qualified to be your vice presidential candidate.

SEN. SCHUMER:  Yeah.  Yeah.

MR. BROKAW:  Did Senator Obama make a mistake?

SEN. SCHUMER:  No, he didn't.  Joe Biden's a great candidate.  Joe is a modest guy.  He was just being Joe Biden there.  Any of us that know him over the years know that Joe would say that.  Joe Biden's a great choice for several reasons.  His foreign policy background is going to compare very favorably to Governor Palin's.  But even more importantly, again, that he understands what the average family goes through on Friday night when they sit around the dinner table and figure, "How am I going to stretch my paycheck to pay all these bills."

MR. BROKAW:  How would you use Senator Clinton in this campaign for Senator Obama?

SEN. SCHUMER:  Oh, I'd use Senator Clinton a lot, and I know she will.  I've talked to her regularly.  She feels with passion what a mistake it would be to continue another four years of the last eight, as she said at the Democratic convention, and she will be out there and out there strongly.

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