'Meet the Press' transcript for Sept. 7, 2008

MR. BROKAW: But the fact is, it was not just the Republicans. It's your home town newspaper, consumers groups, a number of other people thought that you went way too far in bankruptcy protection and cracking down on those people who may not get the relief that they need.

SEN. BIDEN: Well, and most people thought differently. But how come the social welfare agencies supported it, Tom? Are they a bunch of radical, corporate whatever? How come 89--or 85 United States senators supported it? Now, Barack voted a different way. I respect his vote. The question is, is the glass half-full or half-empty? Fewer than 10 percent of all the filers in bankruptcy are even affected. I'm the guy that insisted there be a safe harbor, that no one making under $50,000 or $49,000 could even be considered in this.

And look, the big issue people have is what about people who go bankrupt because of their healthcare bills. That's why we need national health insurance. Are we going to say to every doctor and hospital, "Look, you get to write off your bill, get to write off your bill because people can't pay." The way to do that, that's a societal responsibility, not the responsibility of individual doctors and--assuming they're charging a fair price. And so look, and everybody else voted--not everybody. The vast majority of the members of the Congress voted that way.

MR. BROKAW: So if you get to Washington as president and vice president, given the promises that Senator Obama has made, would you look at situations like you just went through, which has raised some questions, where sons work for big banks that have interests in states...

SEN. BIDEN: My son has never spoken. I voted for every campaign reform that's existed with regard to lobbyists. I voted for every single solitary proposal to make it tougher. And if you ask around here, ask--try to find how many lobbyists have actually--I probably have spoken to lobbyists, but I don't--it's not a practice I have. If they want to see me, the CEO has to come and see me from the company.

MR. BROKAW: But specifically, what would this administration do about K Street and lobbyists, which has begun...

SEN. BIDEN: Well, what, what they would do is they'd stop them from writing the bills. They wouldn't be sitting like Cheney was with lobbyists, writing an energy policy. They'd get to have their voice. Look, there is a thing called free speech. They get to petition their government. But in terms of their ability to be able to set the agenda, write legislation, be these--and my--you know, it's just, it would not--it just a total different atmosphere. A totally different atmosphere, just like it was 25 years ago when it didn't become such a growth industry.

MR. BROKAW: You're a lifetime communicant in the Catholic Church. You've talked often about your faith and the, and the strength of your feelings about your faith.

SEN. BIDEN: Actually, I haven't talked often about my faith. I seldom talk about my faith. Other people talk about my faith.

MR. BROKAW: I'll give you an opportunity to talk about it now.

SEN. BIDEN: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: Two weeks ago I interviewed Senator Nancy Pelosi--she's the speaker of the House, obviously--when she was in Denver. When Barack Obama appeared before Rick Warren, he was asked a simple question: When does life begin? And he said at that time that it was above his pay grade. That was the essence of his question. When I asked the speaker what advice she would give him about when life began, she said the church has struggled with this issue for a long time, especially in the last 50 years or so. Her archbishop and others across the country had a very strong refutation to her views on all this; I guess the strongest probably came from Edward Cardinal Egan, who's the Archbishop of New York. He said, "Anyone who dares to defend that they may be legitimately killed because another human being `chooses' to do so or for any other equally ridiculous reason should not be providing leadership in a civilized democracy worthy of the name." Those are very strong words. If Senator Obama comes to you and says, "When does life begin? Help me out here, Joe," as a Roman Catholic, what would you say to him?

SEN. BIDEN: I'd say, "Look, I know when it begins for me." It's a personal and private issue. For me, as a Roman Catholic, I'm prepared to accept the teachings of my church. But let me tell you. There are an awful lot of people of great confessional faiths--Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others--who have a different view. They believe in God as strongly as I do. They're intensely as religious as I am religious. They believe in their faith and they believe in human life, and they have differing views as to when life--I'm prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception. But that is my judgment. For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society. And I know you get the push back, "Well, what about fascism?" Everybody, you know, you going to say fascism's all right? Fascism isn't a matter of faith. No decent religious person thinks fascism is a good idea.

MR. BROKAW: But if you, you believe that life begins at conception, and you've also voted for abortion rights...

SEN. BIDEN: No, what a voted against curtailing the right, criminalizing abortion. I voted against telling everyone else in the country that they have to accept my religiously based view that it's a moment of conception. There is a debate in our church, as Cardinal Egan would acknowledge, that's existed. Back in "Summa Theologia," when Thomas Aquinas wrote "Summa Theologia," he said there was no--it didn't occur until quickening, 40 days after conception. How am I going out and tell you, if you or anyone else that you must insist upon my view that is based on a matter of faith? And that's the reason I haven't. But then again, I also don't support a lot of other things. I don't support public, public funding. I don't, because that flips the burden. That's then telling me I have to accept a different view. This is a matter between a person's God, however they believe in God, their doctor and themselves in what is always a--and what we're going to be spending our time doing is making sure that we reduce considerably the amount of abortions that take place by providing the care, the assistance and the encouragement for people to be able to carry to term and to raise their children.

MR. BROKAW: Finally, let me ask you about your old colleague, Joe Lieberman, who had a prime time speaking appearance last week at the Republican convention.

SEN. BIDEN: He did, didn't he.

MR. BROKAW: Let's just share with you what Senator Lieberman had to say about the top of your ticket...

SEN. BIDEN: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: ...Senator Obama.

(Videotape, Tuesday)

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I/D-CT): Senator Barack Obama is a gifted and eloquent young man who I think can do great things for our country in the years ahead, but my friends, eloquence is no substitute for a record, not in these tough times for America.

(End videotape)

SEN. BIDEN: Was he talking about...

MR. BROKAW: And two...

SEN. BIDEN: Was he talking about Palin or was he talking about....

MR. BROKAW: Two paragraphs later he went on to say that Sarah Palin is qualified to be just a heartbeat away from the presidency. Harry Reid, the majority leader of the Senate, your leader, was very disappointed. His aide said Wednesday, Reid spokesman Jim Manly, said that Lieberman "appeared to go out of his way to distort Senator Obama's record of bipartisan achievements in the Senate." Should Joe Lieberman be welcomed back in the Democratic caucus?

SEN. BIDEN: Hey, look, we Catholics believe in redemption. I--look I...

MR. BROKAW: You also--you also believe in trying to have a filibuster-proof Senate.

SEN. BIDEN: Well, that's true. And look, Joe's been my friend for years. Our children are friends, his daughter-in-law was in my son's wedding, we go back a long way. Every time I see Joe these days, I walk up and I say, "Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so." And look, Joe's made a judgment. Joe's going to have to make a tougher judgment when this election is over.

MR. BROKAW: But at the same time, you and Senator Obama, John McCain and Sarah Palin are saying this is a change election. We're going to change the way business is done in Washington. And then the American people watch Joe Lieberman in what many of them would see as an act of betrayal against his own party. People say, "Well, hey, he's my old buddy, he's welcome back."

SEN. BIDEN: Well, look. I don't want to personalize this election. Like I said, I heard Sarah Palin and John McCain talk about change. Tell me one single thing they're going to do on the economy, foreign policy, taxes, that is going to be change. Name me one. This is such malarkey. Ninety percent of the time, John votes with the president. Same tax cut, he jumps on his tax cut proposal, which was disastrous, he jumps on his foreign policy, which has been a complete and utter failure. He jumps on the whole idea that he has about how to deal with healthcare, which is to tax. John wants to tax healthcare benefits for people who get their healthcare from their employers? Tell me where the change is. My goodness. He may change on how he deals with a lobbyist, but the idea on the economy, healthcare, education, same outfit, same deal, no change.

MR. BROKAW: Senator Joe Biden of Wilmington, Delaware, vice presidential candidate of the Democratic Party, thanks very much for being with us.

SEN. BIDEN: Thanks, Tom. Thanks for having me.

MR. BROKAW: Our viewers should know that we have extended an invitation for Senator Biden's Republican counterpart, Governor Sarah Palin, to appear any Sunday prior to the election. We made the same invitation to Senator John McCain, who's at the top of the Republican ticket.

Coming up next, our live show from Wilmington, Delaware, continues with Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times columnist, best-selling author Tom Friedman talking about his new, provocative and highly instructive book how the issue of energy and climate change will shape the race for the White House, in a moment.

(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW: Best-selling author, New York Times columnist Tom Friedman after this brief station break.

(Announcements)

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