'Meet the Press' transcript for August 17, 2008

Did Georgia provoke this crisis?

SEC'Y RICE: This crisis has been going on for, as I said, more than a decade. It has been a hot zone and a volatile zone where there have been skirmishes over a significant period of time. It is absolutely the case that we have cautioned all parties against the use of force. In fact, I also talked to the Russians repeatedly in this period about the railway troops that they were bringing in, about reinforcing their peacekeepers, about overflying Georgian territory. So this had been a zone of conflict. We were trying to resolve it peacefully.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

SEC'Y RICE: Whatever happened...

MR. GREGORY: But you--this is a close U.S. ally and you warned them don't provoke the Russians, don't do this.

SEC'Y RICE: David, I...

MR. GREGORY: We have a lot of influence over them.

SEC'Y RICE: David, as I've said, this--you can't just start with, "we told the Georgian's this." We also told the Russians not to engage in certain activities that they were engaging in. This was a zone of conflict, we were trying to do it peacefully. But whatever happened before this, once this broke out in South Ossetia, it could have been confined to South Ossetia. Rather than confine it to that and deal with the facts on the ground there, the Russians decided to go deeper into Georgia, to bomb Georgian ports, to bomb Georgian military installations, to go into the city of Gori. And so it was that escalation that got us to the point that where we're at now. And that...

MR. GREGORY: And give--but given...

SEC'Y RICE: ...fully has been...

MR. GREGORY: ...that escalation, Secretary Rice, do you understand why there are some within the Georgian leadership who feel betrayed by the U.S.? Do they have an unreasonable expectation that the U.S. would come in guns blazing, as it were, to protect them?

SEC'Y RICE: I don't think anybody had an expectation that the United States was going to use military force in this conflict. But we need to keep the focus on the culprit here, and the culprit here is that Russia over-reached, used disproportionate force against a small neighbor and is now paying the price for that, because Russia's reputation as a potential partner in international institutions, diplomatic, political, security, economic, is frankly in tatters.

When President Medvedev gave that very forward-leaning speech just a few weeks ago, saying that Russia was going to be a modern state, it was going to look to Western institutions, it was going to be integrated into the international system, well, if this is what he had in mind, that's a real problem. And I think now that vision that Medvedev put on the table is really in serious doubt, and serious trouble.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let's talk, let's talk about consequences for the relationship. You said that this isn't the Cold War, this isn't like 1968, that the Russians can't get away with it. So what leverage does the United States have over Russia right now?

SEC'Y RICE: Well, in 1968 the Soviet Union occupied the capital, overthrew a government and frankly didn't care because it didn't want to be integrated into the international institutions. Russia does care. Russia sees itself as a modern state. It has--apparently wants to have it both ways. On the one hand it can use disproportionate force against its neighbor and then it can still be welcomed into the halls of these international institutions. It's not going to happen that way. Russia will pay a price. We will look seriously with our allies and bilaterally at the consequences of this Russian action for Russian integration into these institutions.

But Russia has already paid a price, because its strategic objective of undermining the democrat--the democracy of Georgia, of destroying its infrastructure is not going to succeed. And what is more, Russia has caused a backlash among the other small states, many of them which, by the way, are not integrated into the European Union and NATO, like Poland, like the Baltic states and even Ukraine, which--whose president went to stand with the Georgian president.

MR. GREGORY: You talk about the tone of the U.S.-Russian relationship. This is how President Bush ushered in that relationship seven years ago in Slovenia. Let's watch.

(Videotape, June 16, 2001)

PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: And I looked the man in the eye, I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul.

I wouldn't have invited him to my ranch if I didn't trust him.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Was that trust misplaced, Secretary Rice?

SEC'Y RICE: Look, it was absolutely the right thing to do to give Russia a chance. It was the right thing to give Russia a chance to have a path toward integration into Western institutions, into a modern state and to responsible behavior and international system. That's still the right path for Russia. The fact that Russia over the last several years has demonstrated that it's, it's not prepared to go fully on that path is Russia's choice. It was right to give them the choice, it is Russia that miscalculated. It is Russia that misjudged and Russia is now seeing that the European Union and the United States will not tolerate the kind of behavior that they engaged in as the Soviet Union before the end of the Cold War.

MR. GREGORY: Expel...

SEC'Y RICE: The Cold War is over.

MR. GREGORY: Expelling them from the G8 and other measures is on the table.

SEC'Y RICE: Well, David, let me just say on the point that the Cold War is over, that means that the Cold War is over also in terms of what Russia can do and get away with. And so we will take our time and assess where Russia stands in regards to these various diplomatic and political and economic institutions. Right now we're focused very heavily on getting Russian forces out of Georgia, getting the cease-fire to hold, helping the Georgian people in humanitarian terms. We are going to help to rebuild Georgia in a major way because it will re-emerge as a strong economy and a strong democratic state. We will turn to the Russia relationship with the West. I will go to Brussels on Tuesday. We'll begin that conversation in NATO.

But I want to be very clear. Russia has already paid a price because when President Medvedev said that he wanted to be forward-leading and forward-looking and look to integration into Europe, his troops have done significant damage by instead damaging Georgian infrastructure and killing civilians in Georgia. Georgia will rebuild.

MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.

SEC'Y RICE: Russia's reputation may not be rebuilt.

MR. GREGORY: Quickly, Secretary Rice, let me turn to Pakistan. General Musharaff, President Musharaff faces impeachment there. After 9/11, this administration took a very pointed attack against Musharaff and said, "You're either with us or against us," effectively; you need to do certain things. As you contemplate his successor, what level of confidence do you have that his successor will be in lock-step with the United States in finding terror--in fighting terror the way he was?

SEC'Y RICE: Well, the--however this comes out is, of course, a matter for the Pakistanis to decide, but the United States is supportive of the democratically elected government there. President Musharaff has been a good ally. He took off his uniform as he promised, free elections were held. And now we have a relationship with that democratically elected government. That democratically elected government also has a very strong interest in fighting terrorism because it is the terrorists, the militants, who killed Benazir Bhutto. It is the terrorists who are exacting a toll on even cities in Pakistan with their activities. And so the United States, Pakistan, indeed Afghanistan, we all have a joint interest in stopping these terrorists and we had good discussions with the Pakistanis when they were in Washington a couple of weeks ago and we'll continue to, to fight these, these militants.

MR. GREGORY: Secretary Rice, before I let you go, all of us here in America and around the world are watching the Olympic Games.

SEC'Y RICE: Yeah.

MR. GREGORY: Here's a picture of Saudi Arabia's flag bearer as it parades in front of the delegation for these games and you'll notice no women and that's because Saudi Arabia does not allow women to compete in their Olympic Games. As an element of the freedom agenda of this administration here in 2008, how do you react to that?

SEC'Y RICE: Well, look, I think Saudi women ought to be able to participate. I've said Saudi women ought to be able to vote and I think that when, when woman can vote and they're empowered, you're going to see them in the games, but I would also note that if women wish to participate in Afghanistan's team, they can. If women wish to participate in Iraq's team, they can. That in most of the Middle East now, women athletes are participating. Those are positive developments. But certainly, I look forward to the day that there's a Saudi woman athlete in that parade.

MR. GREGORY: We will leave it there. Secretary Condoleezza Rice, thank you very much this morning.

SEC'Y RICE: Thank you.

MR. GREGORY: And coming next, Obama vs. McCain. Just one week before the Democratic convention in Denver, we'll talk to two Southern governors reportedly under consideration for vice president: McCain supporter Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Obama supporter Tim Kaine of Virginia. Jindal and Kaine up next on MEET THE PRESS.

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MR. GREGORY: Governors and potential running mates Bobby Jindal and Tim Kaine, right after this brief station break.

(Announcements)

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