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'Meet the Press' transcript for August 10, 2008
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 Netcast Aug. 10: Exclusive! Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will be Tom Brokaw's guest from Beijing — the site of the Olympic Games. Plus, NBC's David Gregory will lead a political roundtable in Washington, DC, with David Broder, Erin Burnett, E.J. Dionne & Paul Gigot. |
Exclusively on msnbc.com |
MR. BROKAW: Let's talk about China and energy and pollution.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Yep.
MR. BROKAW: The World Bank now estimates that 750,000 Chinese die annually...
SEC'Y PAULSON: Right.
MR. BROKAW: ...from the effects of pollution in this country. It's a big interest of yours...
SEC'Y PAULSON: Yep.
MR. BROKAW: ...I know. They are building one coal-powered plant a week.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Yep.
MR. BROKAW: They're going to add 20,000 cars a day.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Yep.
MR. BROKAW: They'll have 400 million people moving to the city between now and 2025. How do they resolve the conflicting realities between managing that population mass and economic growth and doing something about energy and pollution?
SEC'Y PAULSON: That is the 64,000 question, and when we--as you know, Tom, I spend a lot of time with our strategic economic dialogue and engaging with China, and this is one of the issues we spend a lot of time on. And, as you so rightfully said, economic growth is an imperative to China. They need to keep growing, and the energy consumption--they use about one third of the, the world's coal. They burn two billion tons of coal a year in, in, in China. And so our efforts here, and we, we, we've launched this 10-year energy and environmental framework in which a big part of our effort is going to be developing and deploying cleaner technologies, which is going to be very important. We can't solve our environmental issues, the world can't solve its, its environmental issues without engagement with China and without helping them and all of us working together to solve the issues.
MR. BROKAW: Let me ask you, as well, about issues that have been getting a good deal of attention during these Olympics. You wrote in the Foreign Affairs Quarterly in a long analysis of what's going on in China, "Beijing has recently realized some of the unpleasant implications of working outside the global economic system." They take a lot of oil out of Sudan...
SEC'Y PAULSON: Right.
MR. BROKAW: ...and, therefore, because they've got a huge investment in Sudan and a need for it, they don't put any pressure on the Sudanese government about what's going on in Darfur. It's hard for a lot of people to see how, even though they may have realized some of the unpleasant consequences, that they're doing anything about it.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Well, Tom, listen, there's more they can do in a number of areas, and we, we, we, we clearly need to see more progress here. They, they can make a real difference in Sudan. Now, they have--I will point out that they've, they've come a ways. They've got a company of engineers right there working with the U.N. mission, but I, I, I do think that they could put more pressure on the regime in Karthoum to, to, to work for peace. And I, I think the other thing that, at least in my perspective, I think the Chinese are increasingly saying that there's a cost to making investments in places like Sudan and Iran, because there's a, a--an increasingly large political backlash that goes with those investments.
MR. BROKAW: There's another big issue here this week, and that is Tibet. The Dalai Lama has extended an olive branch fairly significantly to the Chinese government, saying he hopes that these games go well, that he admires the Chinese civilization. They can continue...
SEC'Y PAULSON: Right.
MR. BROKAW: ...their communist system.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Right.
MR. BROKAW: But he hopes that they can have a dialogue. So far there's been no response to that. And it's part of the reason that the Chinese government, in the eyes of a lot of people around the world, remain suspect, don't seem to be a member of the family of nations.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Right. Well, the president has had a lot to say on that, and I guess what I would say is that there are plenty of policies that the Chinese government has that we, we don't agree with, and I don't think that's really the relevant question. I think the relevant question is, what can we do to encourage China to continue on their path of reform, to continue to move to open up and to expand human rights, expand freedoms. And they've come a long way. You know, I've been--you and I were talking earlier. We've both been coming to this country for a long time, and the differences are startling. Not just in terms of the economic situation of the people in China, but some of the freedoms now that they enjoy, and their access to information and their access--ability to move around. And so they're on the right path. And so the question is, how do we get them to move quicker to open up? And I think the answer there is, is engagement.
MR. BROKAW: You were in that stadium for the opening ceremonies...
SEC'Y PAULSON: Yeah.
MR. BROKAW: ...which, by anyone's description, can only be described breathtaking and dazzling and a little terrifying in a way, because you realize how much they've done, and this is the country that you're going to be competing against in the short-term future. A lot of people ask me, "What do you think will happen to China after these games?" I don't have an easy answer. Do you?
SEC'Y PAULSON: I have no easy answer, but the one thing I can say to you, Tom, is that those that think that we need to contain or counter China's economic growth, or that we should be concerned that they're going to overtake us are worried about the wrong thing, that the best thing that could happen to the United States would have China continue to grow and continue to progress and continue to reform. And the worst thing that could happen would be for China to seriously stumble. And so, again, I looked at what I saw there at the stadium as a symbol of all of the progress China has made as they're attempting to do something that is really breathtakingly difficult, to move a billion people from a developing country to a developed country. And, you know, we push them all the time to move quicker, to open up quicker, to expand, you know, human liberties quicker and, and, and so on. But I think it's easier for us to, to, to have impact with them if we recognize how far they've come and we engage with them on that basis.
MR. BROKAW: Mr. Secretary, thanks very much for being here. I hope you have a great family vacation here at the Olympics.
SEC'Y PAULSON: Tom, thank you.
MR. BROKAW: Coming up next, David Gregory will lead our political roundtable this week with Wall Street journalist Paul Gigot, syndicated columnist E.J. Dionne, David Broder of the Washington Post, and our own Erin Burnett of CNBC.
(Announcements)
MR. DAVID GREGORY: Our political roundtable from Washington right after this brief station break.
(Announcements)
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