You head back to the United States in a few hours. For purposes of this program, we'll say good morning. By my judgment, at least, the only television appearances that you've missed this week have been the Home Shopping Network and "Morning Devotional." We're going to take...

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): Right. But those are scheduled when I get back.

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MR. BROKAW: All right. We're going to take you through the itinerary...

SEN. OBAMA: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...so everyone will know what you've been doing. A week ago on Saturday you were in Kuwait visiting troops. On Sunday you moved to Afghanistan, where you visited troops and met with President Karzai. Monday, the epicenter of the trip, Baghdad, meeting with Prime Minister Maliki and American commanders. Tuesday you were in Amman, Jordan, with the king of that country, King Abdullah. And Wednesday meeting a variety of Israeli leaders and a prominent Palestinian. Thursday you were in Berlin meeting with the German Chancellor Merkel, and you gave a speech to a huge throng at Brandenburg Gate. Friday, in Paris, meeting with President Sarkozy of France. Saturday, in London, meeting with Tony Blair, the former prime minister, then with Gordon Brown, the current prime minister, and with David Cameron as well, who is the opposition leader in this country where there's a fair amount of political turmoil here as well.

SEN. OBAMA: It makes me, makes me tired just listening to you read it.

MR. BROKAW: When you get home and Michelle says to you, "Barack, what did you learn that surprised you? And did you change your mind about anything based on this entire trip?"

SEN. OBAMA: Well, I, I, I didn't see a huge shift in the strategic policies that I've laid out throughout this campaign. It was clear to me that Afghanistan is the central front on terror, that the Taliban and al-Qaeda have reconstituted themselves. They are--they have safe havens along the Afghan-Pakistan border. Our troops are doing an outstanding job, and many coalition troops are doing an outstanding job. But frankly, we need a, a, a more serious effort on the part of the Afghan government and President Karzai to get out of Kabul, to start the development process. We're going to need two additional brigades in Afghanistan and we've got to work with Pakistan to get serious about these terrorist safe havens. So that's got to be a priority. I was pleased to see the reductions in violence in Iraq. And there's no doubt that we have seen violence lessen, our troops are performing in an extraordinary fashion. The Sunni awakening has helped to eliminate, if not eliminate, then greatly lessen the possibilities of al-Qaeda reconstituting itself as a big and effective force. And the fact that Prime Minister Maliki is ready to take on more responsibility for the security of their country, I think is a positive development.

MR. BROKAW: Let's begin there in Iraq, and that judgment of yours that violence has lessened and that there is a possibility now that Prime Minister Maliki can take on more responsibility. You engaged in some verbal kung fu with reporters and others as well this week about the surge. You opposed the surge, the addition of other American troops in there. Many analysts believe that the reason that violence has decreased is because the American troops were deployed in a more effective manner...

SEN. OBAMA: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...And it allowed President Maliki to stabilize his government somewhat. But you would not apologize, and you said you did not regret your opposition this surge.

SEN. OBAMA: Right.

MR. BROKAW: That prompted this radio ad from your opponent John McCain, which is running today. So let's listen to that and then respond.

(Videotape)

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: (From political ad) Now that it's clear that the surge has succeeded and brought victory in Iraq within sight, Senator Obama can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the even greater error of insisting that, even in hindsight, he would still oppose the surge. Even in retrospect, he would choose the path of retreat and failure for America over the path of success and victory. That's not exactly my idea of the judgment we seek in a commander-in-chief.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: That's a radio speech from Senator John McCain that is running on this Sunday in America. He's referring to what you had to say on January 10th, 2007...

SEN. OBAMA: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...and repeated several times. Let's listen to you now and your immediate reaction to the idea of the surge back in the beginning of 2007.

(Videotape)

SEN. OBAMA: I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there; in fact, I think it'll do the reverse.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: We're not talking about angels on the head of a pin here, but let me ask you a direct question.

SEN. OBAMA: All right.

MR. BROKAW: Do you believe that President Maliki would be in a position to more or less endorse your timetable of getting troops out within 16 months if it had not been for the surge?

SEN. OBAMA: You know, we don't know, because in my earlier statements--I mean, I know that there's that little snippet that you ran, but there were also statements made during the course of this debate in which I said there's no doubt that additional U.S. troops could temporarily quell the violence. But unless we saw an underlying change in the politics of the country, unless Sunni, Shia, Kurd made different decisions, then we were going to have a civil war and we could not stop a civil war simply with more troops. Now, I, I...

MR. BROKAW: But couldn't they make that political decision because troops were there to help them make it.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, the--well, the--look, there's no doubt, and I've said this repeatedly, that our troops make a difference. If--you know, they do extraordinary work. The troops that I met, they were proud of their work, they had made enormous sacrifices, they had fought, they had helped to construct schools and, and rebuilt the countryside. But, for example, in Anbar Province, where we went to visit, the Sunni awakening took place before the surge started, and tribal leaders made a decision that, instead of fighting the Americans, we're going to work with the Americans against al-Qaeda. That was a political decision that was made that has made a huge difference in this entire process.

So the, the point I want to make is this, Tom, I mean, you know, if we want to look at the question of judgment which is the one that John McCain raised, John McCain's essential focus has been on the tactical issue of sending more troops, and he's, he's made his entire approach to foreign policy rest on that support of Bush's decision to send more troops in. But we can have a whole range of arguments about past decisions--the decision to go into Iraq in the first place, and whether that was a good strategic decision, where we've spent a trillion dollars at least by the time this thing is over, lost thousands of lives in pursuit of goals John McCain supported that turned out to be false. We can make decisions about does it make sense for us to set a time frame for withdrawal to encourage the kind of political reconciliation that needs to take place to stabilize Iraq. We can talk about the distractions from hunting down al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, where there is no doubt that we would be further along had we not engaged in some of these actions, and...

MR. BROKAW: But we have to talk about the reality of what's going on in Iraq right now.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, but, but, but, let me...

MR. BROKAW: And the Anbar awakening, most people believe, was successful in large part because the American troops did come in and make it possible for them to have the kind of political reconciliation...

Click for more from 'Meet the Press'

Obama sticks to his guns on 'Meet the Press'

SEN. OBAMA: Tom, look--Tom, I'm, I'm--the fact that--the...

MR. BROKAW: Do you disagree with that?

SEN. OBAMA: As I said before, our troops made an enormous contribution, but to try to single out one factor in a very messy situation is just not accurate, and it doesn't, it doesn't take into account the larger strategic issues that have been at stake throughout this process. Look, we've got a finite amount of resources. We've got a finite number of troops. Our military is stretched extraordinarily because of trying to fight two wars at the same time. And so my job as the next commander in chief is going to be to make a decision what is the right war to fight, and, and how do we fight it? And I think that we should have been focused on Afghanistan from the start. We should have finished that job. We have not, but we now have the opportunity, moving forward, to begin a phased redeployment and to make sure that we're finishing the job in Afghanistan.

CONTINUED

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