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'Meet the Press' transcript for June 22, 2008
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 Netcast June 22: Exclusive! NBC's Brian Williams moderates a Decision 2008 debate: For the Obama campaign — Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE). For the McCain campaign — Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC). Plus, a political roundtable with John Harwood and Andrea Mitchell. |
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SEN. GRAHAM: I--all I can say, this is just an exercise. It's pitiful, really, to have someone this talented, has so much to offer to the country. It's like nailing Jell-O to the wall. This guy is everywhere. He sent--and went to AIPAC and said, "I support Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel! Put it in the bank." The next day, "Well, you know, not really." He seems to be willing to say or do anything for the moment to advance his cause. And his cause is to win the election, it's not to change this country, and that's sad.
MR. WILLIAMS: Topic you raised earlier, topic we saw come up this past week, positions mostly similar between John McCain and President George W. Bush. This from The Washington Post: "Senator John McCain called for an end to the federal ban on offshore oil drilling. ... [His] announcement is a reversal of the position he took in his 2000 presidential campaign."
Senator Graham, more than that, when you get beyond what constitutes a reversal, what doesn't, the environmentalists came out immediately and, to synopsize their position, I guess it could be said they view this as a, as a gift--this current energy crisis, $4 a gallon at the pump, a gift handed to the United States to change the way the nation does business and propels itself and powers everything. This was seen as something counter to that.
SEN. GRAHAM: Well, I'm not so sure most Americans feel like they've received a present for $4 a gallon oil.
MR. WILLIAMS: Oh.
SEN. GRAHAM: I think John understands that energy independence is going to require a lot of things. More domestic exploration, no to ANWR, yes to offshore drilling, deep sea exploration, if the states consent, makes sense. I can't go anywhere--maybe Joe has a different experience here. Everybody I meet says, "Why don't we find out own oil?" This is an effort by Senator McCain to allow that to be done in an environmentally sensitive way given the fact that oil--gas is $4 a gallon. It makes sense to put American resources on the table to blunt the blow of what's happening overseas.
MR. WILLIAMS: What does this get you and when? When do you see that price roll back on pump?
SEN. GRAHAM: Well, I think, I think it gets you some immediate relief. You know, why do you send a letter--why did the Democratic leadership send a letter to President Bush, to Saudi Arabia, tell them to drill more. The Democratic solution here is tax at home and get Saudi Arabia to drill more. The supply they want comes from the Mideast. The supply John McCain wants is here at home to blunt the effect of dependency of Mideast oil.
SEN. BIDEN: Let's, let's get something straight here. We're not trying to get...
SEN. GRAHAM: That's the letter that they sent.
SEN. BIDEN: We're not trying to get Saudi to drill more, we're trying to get them to pump more of what they're drilling. They're not pumping what they could, number one. This is a gift, a gift to the oil companies by John McCain. They have now leased 41 million acres of offshore leases. They're only pumping in 10.2 million of those acres. Seventy-nine percent of all the offshore oil available off the coast of Florida, into the Gulf of Mexico, the Atlantic Coast, the Pacific Coast, lies within those acres that they now have. Why are they not pumping? Why are they not doing this? Why are they not pursuing what's estimated to be a total of 70--54 billion barrels of oil at their disposal right now if they pump? Why are these greedy fellows deciding they want to go beyond that? It's because they want to get it in before George Bush leaves the presidency. It's because they're not pumping the oil to keep the price up. They are not even drilling. So here you have 30 million leased acres they have right now that possesses 79 percent of all the offshore, and they're not drilling. And John says they need more? And it would take 10 years for it to come online.
MR. WILLIAMS: Senator Graham, you have a beautiful coastline there in South Carolina.
SEN. GRAHAM: Yes, we do.
MR. WILLIAMS: Would your position include exploration off your own shore?
SEN. GRAHAM: If the state of South Carolina consented. I'm for lifting the moratorium that prevents us as a nation from going offshore to extract oil and gas. Cuba is doing a deal with China, potentially, to drill off our shores. So yes, now is the time at $4 a gallon, $135 a barrel oil, to find more oil and gas here at home. If you're looking for a difference on energy between Obama and Senator McCain, he will allow American companies to go extract off our coast, with state consent a lot of oil and gas that exists there to get this country into energy independence and reduce the gas...
SEN. BIDEN: Let's get this straight...
SEN. GRAHAM: ...the price for gas.
SEN. BIDEN: ...they can do that already.
SEN. GRAHAM: No, they don't. There's a federal moratorium on off-coast drilling.
SEN. BIDEN: No, no, no, no. There's a moratorium on--no, this is off-coast. Where do you think the 40 million acres are, Lindsey? They're off the coasts.
SEN. GRAHAM: So.
SEN. BIDEN: They're off the coasts.
SEN. GRAHAM: So.
SEN. BIDEN: Forty million acres off coast. They want to get to the other 600 million acres that are not included in this.
SEN. GRAHAM: I thought we were talking...
SEN. BIDEN: The 79 percent of the reserves they already have access to, off your coast and mine.
SEN. GRAHAM: I thought we were talking--I thought the question that we were asked is there's new resources being made available by lifting the moratorium.
SEN. BIDEN: That's simply not true.
SEN. GRAHAM: It's not? Well, that would be news to everybody.
SEN. BIDEN: There are existing resources that they have available that they're not drilling for now. Those are the facts.
MR. WILLIAMS: Senator Graham, The Greenville, Greenville News, September 20th, 2005, "Objections to drilling off the Carolinas center on the impact of tourism and the environment."
SEN. GRAHAM: Mm-hmm.
MR. WILLIAMS: "Said Senator Lindsey Graham: `All of our coastal communities I've talked with believe offshore drilling would be a detriment to our economy along the coast. I tend to agree with that.'" What changed?
SEN. GRAHAM: Four dollar a gallon gas.
MR. WILLIAMS: And what about the future 10 years down the road?
SEN. GRAHAM: Right. Right.
MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned energy independence, where does that conversation come in?
SEN. GRAHAM: Well, what you do is you have a supply-demand problem. The more domestic supply, the better we are off as a nation. But to get away from fossil fuels in general is a goal of Senator McCain. One thing you do on the power side is add nuclear power. We cannot address climate change without replacing oil and coal-fired plants with nuclear power. But when it comes to domestic supply, we're talking about 50 miles off the coast of South Carolina with the consent of the legislature where the state gets half the revenue. I think in an environmentally sound way we can extract deep sea exploration oil and gas off our coast that will allow us to be more energy independent. John is for that. I am for that. And I believe the state of South Carolina will be for that.
SEN. BIDEN: We already can do that. Let's get the facts. You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. Forty million acres leased offshore, number one. Number two, the first well to be dug from the time they lease, if Lindsey gives them access to more area, it'll take 10 years from the time the lease is let to the time oil comes out of the bottom of the sea in the new leases.
MR. WILLIAMS: Senator Graham, this is what people are talking about. Myrtle Beach Sun News, "The Senate ... may consider lifting bans on exploring for oil and natural gas along the East and West coasts of the [U.S.] ... `I feel terrible about that,' Graham said. `The worst thing we can do as a nation is taking the easy way out. ... If you start opening up offshore drilling, then you are buying time and you are not addressing the fundamental problem with fossil fuels.'" So you see the argument, you made it.
SEN. GRAHAM: Yeah, and, and here's the honest--well, here, here's my answer. At $4 a gallon, time is not on our side. It is affecting food prices, it is affecting the quality of life in America. I have a lot of low-income people in South Carolina who drive the most inefficient cars. We're talking about allowing exploration in a deep sea area off the coast of South Carolina, Virginia and North Carolina with state consent that will enhance dramatically our supplies. I am willing to do that in an environmentally sensitive manner. Yes, $4 a gallon has changed my view of this; $135 dollars a barrel has changed my view of this. I think the economic impact of not adjusting now is going to be devastating in the--to the country short and long-term, and therefore I have changed my position.
SEN. BIDEN: No short-term consequence of additional leases, period, 10 years minimum. Two, better to invest in windmills offshore, alternative energy offshore, give those people a break. And three, the change is called an election.
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