'Meet the Press' transcript for June 15, 2008

MR. BROKAW: All right, Maria, stand by there in Sun Valley. We'll be talking to you during the course of this program.

We're also joined this morning by Tim's very good friends and regulars on this broadcast, James Carville and Mary Matalin, the left and right on national politics.

James, it was always stunning to me that candidates would appear here and think that they were going to get away with something. I mean, you worked with...

MR. JAMES CARVILLE: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: ...a lot of these candidates who were going to appear on MEET THE PRESS. Could you ever warn them enough?

MR. CARVILLE: Well, you warn them. I think what Tim, I mean, more than anything didn't like is a candidate who wasn't prepared.

MR. BROKAW: Right.

MR. CARVILLE: Somebody that came on the show unprepared. You know, if, if you come in, and you're prepared and you say some things, you're right, you're going to get crossed up a little bit and sometimes you say, "Yeah, you know, I changed my mind." And he was always amused and kind of liked that. I, I, I think that the biggest insult to him was that someone would come on here and wasn't prepared for the show, didn't take his show seriously, that he--he did have the most serious show on television. And if you came on, it didn't matter if you were a Republican or Democrat, or you were a liberal or conservative, if you came prepared he, he--it was going to be a good interview. And, and I would say any candidate that would ever come on this show, just be prepared, don't be frivolous and, and, and take the questions that--and you--and he never comes at you. He's a very--it was a very easy show to prepare for in the sense you knew he was not going to ask you any questions out of left field, you knew his, his thing was going to be entitlements, you knew his things were going to be past statements, you knew, you knew where he was coming from. So it was--at once it was a very hard show, but you could prepare for it because it was very fair. Always very fair.

MR. BROKAW: Mary Matalin, a lot of people on the left and the right say "This guy's just unfair to my people." I always thought he was equal opportunity in terms of how he treated the candidates whether they came from the left or the right.

MS. MARY MATALIN: Yeah, this is where you separated the men from the boys, right? You weren't, you weren't a candidate till you came on this show. If you ever had anything to say, just coming on this show--if you were an incumbent. You came here, that meant you had something to say. And James is right. It was simple to prepare for in the sense that there was no "gotcha," but it was not easy, because you had to be 10 questions deep, because he was going to be 12 questions deep, and he didn't want, he didn't want to surprise you. He wanted you to know where he was going, and he would say "I want to give you a chance to--you messed this up last time. I want to ask you again so you can clean it up." It was his purpose to, to inform and James is so right about this. The people that messed up here--I think one of us said this earlier--they messed themselves up, Tim didn't mess them up.

MR. BROKAW: Betsy Fischer, you've been Tim's producer and at his side for a long time. You began here as an intern.

MS. BETSY FISCHER: Seventeen years ago.

MR. BROKAW: Seventeen years ago. Tim always said that Big Russ watching in Buffalo was his best barometer. He knew who the phonies were. And...

MS. FISCHER: He had his own focus group...

MR. BROKAW: Right.

MS. FISCHER: ..he said. A cheap one.

MR. BROKAW: And Tim would get that reading at the end of a broadcast. He'd call Big Russ and see how it went.

MS. FISCHER: He would. And he, he called it the cheapest, most accurate focus group, and that was his needle, his compass. And the next thing he would do is grab me and say, "What do we have for next week? What's the show?"

But James talking about preparation, and candidates being prepared coming on here, there was nobody more prepared than Tim Russert himself when people would come on this show, and he would spend--and he called it a luxury--he would spend all week preparing for this show, reading everything. He never once sat in that chair unprepared. He would prepare for a three-hour show.

MR. BROKAW: I always thought that both his Jesuit training and his legal education, which a lot of people didn't have a full appreciation of, were so important to him because this broadcast was always about accountability. If you're in the public arena and running for office, then we have an obligation to hold you accountable.

MS. FISCHER: Absolutely. And the way he would structure the questions was very lawyerly. We--he, he always knew how a candidate was going to respond, and he was, he was prepared enough to know that. And he would sketch it out in his mind: "I'm going to ask A, that'll get us to B, that'll get us around to C, and then there's D." And he, he knew how to get you into that cycle, and he was very skilled at that.

MR. BROKAW: Gwen, you were a colleague of ours here at NBC News, and now you have your own broadcast on PBS. And I, I think one of the real benefits of having MEET THE PRESS on the air is that, for the rest of the week, other Washington journalists would have something to operate from. They would have a whole foundation, right?

MS. GWEN IFILL: It's true. Everybody would come to work on Monday morning and decide, OK, the, the plate had been reset, especially in politics, every week based on what had happened on MEET THE PRESS. And for the politicians you covered, the plate had also been reset. You know, when you watch the way Tim did his job, I mean, you knew he had to be prepared. You knew that he expected answers. But he didn't do it with banality, and he didn't do it in a lordly, smug way. So you always--to me, it was, it was a--you could study, as a journalist, the way you ask a question and then the way you listen for an answer. Tim didn't just--if someone said, "Oh, and by the way, I killed my wife," Tim heard that. A lot of journalists would just keep going. And so he was always--and because, bottom up. And because he was so fundamentally curious about people and about issues, he knew instinctively what it was that you had said which was going to be interesting to people at home. If you don't have the curiosity, it shows.

MR. BROKAW: I suppose if Tim had one continuing question on this broadcast for people who came here, because in the hearts of minds of even the most lowly elected official, they think, "Maybe one day I can get to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue," and Tim really understood that. So he would always ask, "Are you running?" Let's take a look at some of that.

(Videotape)

REP. DICK GEPHARDT: ...for the country.

MR. RUSSERT: So you're not even considering, considering running for president in '92?

REP GEPHARDT: I have no plans. I'm running for majority leader.

MR. RUSSERT: All right, let's try this one.

Offscreen Voice #1: Wait a second.

MR. RUSSERT: Will you, will you say categorically this morning that you will not run for president in 1992?

Man: Tim, I've said many, many times...

MR. RUSSERT: We're listening.

Man: ...I--I've said many, many times I'm majority leader, I'm enjoying being majority leader, that's what I'm doing.

MR. RUSSERT: We have no doubt you're enjoying it, but will you say categorically?

Man: I have no plans...

MR. RUSSERT: No plans.

Man: ...or intentions of doing anything else.

MR. RUSSERT: John Kerry, you going to run for president in 2004?

Mr. JOHN KERRY: I'm running for re-election in 2002.

MR. RUSSERT: How about '04?

MR. KERRY: I'm not making any decisions beyond '02.

MR. RUSSERT: Gray Davis?

MR. GRAY DAVIS: I'm focused on keeping the lights on and making our schools better.

MR. RUSSERT: But you're not ruling it out?

MR. DAVIS: I'm--the only election on my horizon is re-election in 2002.

MR. RUSSERT: Huckabee, you're not running.

MR. MIKE HUCKABEE: No, I think America's elected a guy from Hope, Arkansas. They've probably had their chance at that, honestly.

Offscreen Voice #2: I am, I am running.

MR. RUSSERT: Oh, god.

Do you ever want to be president?

MS. HILLARY CLINTON: No. You know, I...

MR. RUSSERT: Ever?

MS. CLINTON: No. I really...

MR. RUSSERT: Never? You'll never run?

MS. CLINTON: You know, Tim, I have no intention of running for president.

MR. RUSSERT: Oh, but that's a--that's--no intention? Either "I will never run" or "I might run."

MS. CLINTON: You know, your good friend and mine, James Carville, told me, "Tim will ask you this 900 different ways." But the answer is the same. I, you know, I do not intend to do that.

MR. RUSSERT: What's your decision?

MR. RALPH NADER: After careful thought and my desire to retire our supremely selected president, I've decided to run as an independent candidate for president.

MS. CONDOLEEZZA RICE: I don't know how

MR. RUSSERT: Period.

MS. RICE: ...many ways to say no in this town.

MR. RUSSERT: Period.

MS. RICE: I really don't.

MR. RUSSERT: Period. "I will not run as president of the--for president."

MS. RICE: I, I have no intention. I don't want to run. I think...

MR. RUSSERT: "I will not run."

MS. RICE: ...people who run are great, but I don't want to run.

MR. RUSSERT: It's a Shermanesque statement.

MS. RICE: Shermanesque statement.

MR. RUSSERT: You're done. You're out.

MS. RICE: I'm done.

MR. RUSSERT: You going to run for president?

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: We'll hear it here first.

MR. RUSSERT: But it's fair to say you're thinking about running for president in 2008?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: It's fair, yes.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: Tim's very good friend, Mike Barnicle, my pal as well. Mike and I have talked about this a lot. Tim had a great--that question was not just idle speculation. He wanted to land on the front page of the newspaper the next morning. That was one of the tests that he had here. MEET THE PRESS was successful if they drove the news cycle.

MR. MIKE BARNICLE: Oh, there's no doubt about that. And off of what Betsy and everyone else has said, there's, there's no way people could really comprehend the depth of planning and preparation that Tim would put into this program. And I can tell you, old pal, from the heart, that I, I can certainly comply with one half of your request. I won't whine, but I can't commit...

MR. BROKAW: To not cry.

MR. BARNICLE: ...at the end of this program to not crying. Because we sit here on this set with this in the backdrop. And, as Luke Russert told me yesterday, that this program was Tim's second son.

MR. BROKAW: Mm-hmm.

MR. BARNICLE: And he loved this program. He loved it as a vehicle, an educational vehicle for everyone out there. For everyone out there. For people in the news business as well as everyone who views this program. And we will all continue, but it will just never, ever be the same; although I will hear his laugh forever.

MR. BROKAW: And "This is wild," which is another favorite comment that he would say at the end of a broadcast, or "This is big." He would come here early in the morning, earlier than anybody else who ever prepared for these broadcasts, like, 6, 6:30. Right, Betsy?

MS. FISCHER: Oh, yeah.

MR. BROKAW: And he would rehearse the questions. I mean, he would read them out and, and look to the camera and do them, and anticipate as she...

MS. FISCHER: Play both sides.

MR. BROKAW: Right.

MR. BARNICLE: Yeah. Well, he, he had that--he, he would have made a great prosecutor. And in the sense, sometimes, although always quite fairly, as James pointed out, he was a prosecutor on behalf of the public good here. He was going to get to the news, he was going to get to the story, he was going to get to the truth. And he knew how to do it skillfully and fairly, and never condescendingly. And there was always attached to Timmy, on this program and in his conversation with public people especially, a "Columbo" element. You'd be just walking away saying, you know, "Whew."

Ms. KEARNS GOODWIN: "I made it."

MR. BARNICLE: "I skated on that one." You know, and "Mr., Mr. Brokaw, just one more question."

MS. FISCHER: He'd say, "Before you go..."

MR. BARNICLE: Yeah. And bang.

MS. IFILL: And Tom, and Tom, can I add that also, this, this studio, I thought of it as the "church of Tim." He was also the great uber priest. I would actually get a pass from my own pastor not to go to church on Sundays if I was going to be on MEET THE PRESS. He got that.

MR. BROKAW: And, Maria, out in Sun Valley, when you talked to the governor of California about appearing on MEET THE PRESS, did you give him fair warning about what he may expect from Tim, even though you were...

MS. SHRIVER: Well, I was listening--everybody talking about how prepared Tim was. Tim was a--I thought it was so interesting, the way he tried to get people to come on the program. Talk about being prepared, he'd hound you for months on end. And he would always call me, I remember, after--when Arnold was running then after he was elected, he would call me all the time to check on me, see how I was doing. Then he'd kind of veer the question to, you know, "Arnold needs to come on the show. He can't get respect until he comes on the show. It's a rite of passage. He needs to be on this show. And, you know, he's not going to be anybody until he comes on this show." And eventually he was right, you know. And I saw people on the Republican side prepare to go on that show, and I saw my uncle on the Democratic side sit down and prepare to go on that show. And people were equally terrified, I think, to go on that show. And they also prepared, because, as everybody said, they knew Tim was also going to be prepared. And they knew it was a rite of passage.

MR. BROKAW: James....

MS. SHRIVER: And I loved the way he--he'd go after people to get on that show. He really worked that angle just as much as being prepared once they finally agreed.

MR. BROKAW: And Doris and James, I want to get your take on this, because I always believed that he, that he elevated journalism by working first in politics, because he saw it from the other side. He knew how political people saw journalism and how they thought that they could manipulate it. And he knew, not just where the bodies were buried...

MR. CARVILLE: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...he knew where the earmarks were buried, he knew where the votes had been taken. And if some candidate thought he could wander off to East Bicycle Falls, Kentucky, and say something and get away with it, he'd be held accountable.

MR. CARVILLE: Well, the thing is, he, he, he understood--he loved politics. I--when I used to run campaigns, the first question I'd ask somebody I wanted to work is, "Do you like politics?" And if they didn't, I had no interest in hiring them. I don't care how many degrees they had or what they did. And people need to understand this about Tim. And he would sit and we would talk literally every day but Friday. I generally wouldn't call him on Friday, because he was--that--you know, Betsy, he was in the zone. We'd talk sometimes two, three times a day, and he'd say, "You see what this guy's doing over here?" or "What do you think about this?" or "Why don't they say that?" He never got out of--he always was in politics. He, he went into journalism, but he understood it in a fundamental way that so--that, that--and people that watch the show understood that, that he, he--look, the thing about--I just, one thing I want to say is the question I'm most often asked about Tim is, is he as really a good guy as he looks like? And the truth is, he was a better guy. He was really a better guy than even you think he was. And the reason he was is because he had so much of a little boy in him.

MS. IFILL: Oh, is that ever true.

MR. CARVILLE: And an enthusiasm for sports, for politics, he just--I no--I didn't have a friend that I could like just talk about politics or a move or what someone was doing, or what Huckabee was doing and what the effect of that was going to be three things down the line, or, or how Edwards was, you know, he just--it's just stunning the, that somebody had that passion and that depth of the subject and...

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