'Meet the Press' transcript for June 1, 2008

MR. RUSSERT:  Let's talk about that podium, October 7th, 2003, when Scooter Libby and Karl Rove were being accused of being part of the whole Valerie Plame/Joe Wilson situation.  Scott McClellan defended them.  Let's watch.

(Videotape)

MR. McCLELLAN:  They're good individuals.  They're important members of our White House team, and that's why I spoke with them, so that I could come back to you and say that they were not involved.  I, I had no doubt with--of that in the beginning, but I like to check my information to make sure it's accurate before I report back to you, and that's exactly what I did.

I spoke with those individuals, as I pointed out, and those individuals assured me they were not involved in this.  And that's where it stands.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  You misled the American people.

MR. McCLELLAN:  I did, unknowingly.  I, I, I went to both those individuals, asked them point-blank, "Were you involved in the leaking of Valerie Plame's identity in any way?" Both of them told me, unequivocally, "No." Now, the president also told me in a conversation I detail in the book that he had been told the same by Karl Rove in terms...

MR. RUSSERT:  So--stop there.

MR. McCLELLAN:  Yes.

MR. RUSSERT:  Did Karl Rove lie to the president of the United States?

MR. McCLELLAN:  That's my belief.  But I don't know their specific conversation.  I just know what the president told me, which was "Karl told me he was not involved."

MR. RUSSERT:  There's a difference in the way you describe the questioning as to the way Mr. Rove described your questioning.  Here's what Rove says:  "But the fact of the matter is Scott's questions to me were:  did I leak Valerie Plame's name, and the answer is no."

You write:  "The second time I checked with Rove was on Saturday, September 27, 2003.  ...  I asked Karl an unambiguous, unqualified catch-all question, `Were you involved in this in any way?' I was" certainly "referring to the leaking of Valerie Plame's identity--information that was believed to be classified--to any reporter.

"Karl replied categorically, `No.  Look, I didn't even know about his wife.'"

One of you is not telling the truth.

MR. McCLELLAN:  Well, Karl had also said something very similar to, I think it was on CNN and ABC, when he was asked about questions, "Were you involved in this?" He said, "I did not know her name.  I did not leak her name." It's pretty disingenuous.  I, I think most people, most objective observers realize that now.  He still maintains he wasn't involved in the leaking of her name, yet most objective observers say, yes, he was.  He talked to two reporters about her identity, Matt Cooper and Robert Novak.  Apparently he was the second confirming source.

But let me mention this.  That question, when I said, "Were you involved in this in any way?" and he categorically said no, that is absolutely true.  It is what I said under oath to the grand jury, it is what I told investigators. And secondly, that is the same question I asked Scooter--very same question I asked Scooter Libby, because the chief of staff Andy Card came to me shortly after that, that Saturday after the first week, said, "The president and vice president spoke this morning.  They want you to give the same assurances that--for Scooter Libby that you gave for Karl Rove," basically exonerating him publicly.  I said, "I will do that only if I am given the same assurances by Scooter." And I called him, I got him on the phone, said, "Were you involved in this in any way?" "No, absolutely not."

MR. RUSSERT:  Would you...

MR. McCLELLAN:  And, and I think White House reporters know, I said I talked to those individuals and they assured me they were not involved, that they can take me on my word when I said that.  Unfortunately, that information turned out to be false.

MR. RUSSERT:  Would you agree to release your grand jury testimony publicly?

MR. McCLELLAN:  I haven't thought about it.  I don't know, I don't know if I have the authority to do that or not.  I, I'm glad to, you know, certainly share my views, as I have in this book, and talk about it.

MR. RUSSERT:  The president said at the time that "if someone committed a crime, they'd no longer work in my administration." Do you believe the president should have fired Karl Rove?

MR. McCLELLAN:  That's a, that's a question that the president had to make, and he chose not to.

MR. RUSSERT:  But what do you think?

MR. McCLELLAN:  Well, I, I think he should have stood by his word.  I think the president should have stood by the word that we said, which is if you were involved in this any way, then you would no longer be in this administration. And Karl was involved in it.  That would be a tough decision.  I don't know if, if there was any crime committed.  I don't--I say I just don't know that in the book.  But we had higher standards at the White House.  The president said he was going to restore honor, integrity.  He said we were going to set the highest of standards.  We didn't live up to that.  When it became known that his top adviser had been involved, then the bar was moved.  And the bar was moved to "if anyone is indicted, they would no longer be here."

MR. RUSSERT:  So you think they should've been dismissed.

MR. McCLELLAN:  I think so.  I mean, Scooter Libby was, and I, and I think that he should...

MR. RUSSERT:  Well, he resigned.  But you...

MR. McCLELLAN:  Yes.  But that was pushed out.

MR. RUSSERT:  But you believe Rove--Rove should've, should've left?

MR. McCLELLAN:  I think the president should've stood by his word, and that meant Karl should've left.

MR. RUSSERT:  You write this:  "In years to come, as I worked closely with President Bush, I would come to believe that sometimes he convinces himself to believe what suits his needs at the moment.  It is not unlike a witness in a court who does not want to implicate himself in wrongdoing, but is also concerned about perjuring himself."

That's an extraordinary statement to make about the president of the United States.

MR. McCLELLAN:  Well, I, I think it's, it's a statement of--a lot of politicians get into that mode.  They come into this atmosphere, and that was talking about a very personal issue there that occurred years ago.  And I, I think it's fine for something like that, it's understandable that, you know, "I don't want--I don't recall." But when that transfers into...

MR. RUSSERT:  That was his use of cocaine?

MR. McCLELLAN:  That's correct, and I recount that story in the book when he says, "I"--you know, told a supporter "I don't remember." Now the--and at that point, that didn't bother me too much because it was understandable, given that it was such an issue of a personal nature that occurred in his younger days, 20, 30 years ago.

MR. RUSSERT:  Was it believable?

MR. McCLELLAN:  I don't know.  I don't, I don't believe so.  I say that in the book that it struck me as how could you not remember?  But when that transfers over into other issues, issues of policy, that then, that then becomes a problem.  One thing that I, I can point to that you will probably remember very well, and at--your viewers, is that when he was talking about Iran and Iran pursuing nuclear weapons, it later became known that a National Intelligence Estimate had come out before that time--before he was making those remarks and said that they had suspended their nuclear weapons program. He was asked about it.  "Do you--were you told--when were you told about this? When were you told about this National Intelligence estimate?" And he said, "I don't remember." I, I just can't find that--I, I just find that hard to believe.  Now, he believes it in his heart, I think, but he convinces himself to do so.

MR. RUSSERT:  It's self-deception?

MR. McCLELLAN:  It is.

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