'Meet the Press' transcript for May 11, 2008

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to the general election. We saw the first skirmish, if you will, about Hamas between McCain and Obama. This is how it started. The chief political adviser of the prime minister of Hamas said, "We like Mr. Obama" "we hope" you "will win the election." "I do believe he is like John Kennedy - [a] great man with great principle." "He has a vision to change America." John McCain jumped on that: "I think it's very clear who Hamas wants to be the next president of the United States. ... I think" "people should understand that I will be Hamas' worst nightmare. ... If Senator Obama's favored by Hamas, I think people can make judgments accordingly." Senator Obama responded this way.

(Videotape, May 8, 2008)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): And so for him to toss out comments like that I think is an example of him losing his bearings as he pursues this nomination. We don't need name-calling in this debate.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: The McCain campaign responded in the name of Mark Salter, "First, let us" clear up--"be clear about the nature of Senator Obama's attack today: He used the words `losing his bearings' intentionally, a not particularly clever way of raising Senator McCain's age as an issue. This is typical of the Obama style of campaigning."

Bill Burton of the Obama campaign fired back: "Clearly losing one's bearings has no relation to age, given this bizarre rant that Mark Salter just sent out." It's a clear why a candidate offering--"It's clear why a candidate offering a third term of George Bush's disastrous economic policies and failed strategy in Iraq would want to distract and attack."

Michele, we have Hamas, foreign policy, inexperience, George Bush's third term, Iraq, age, all of that on the table in one exchange. I'm exhausted.

MS. NORRIS: Well, I think that that's one of the reasons that Salter issued that, that response right away, is they realize their internal tracking is probably telling them that age might be an issue among some voters. And I know when I spend time on the road, when John McCain's age comes up, it usually comes up among older votes who know how exhausted they feel when they wake up in the morning and wonder if, if--and it--you know, it sounds a bit of ageism, but that is something that the campaign...

MR. RUSSERT: If elected, he would be 72, the oldest American ever elected to a first term.

MR. CILLIZZA: Tim, it strikes me that that one of the dynamics--and there are any number of interesting dynamics and narratives that'll play out--but one of them is who can win the age vs. experience battle? Clearly, Senator McCain is going to paint Barack Obama as inexperienced both in foreign and domestic policy to be president of the United States.

There will be a sentiment that this is on the Democratic side, though they will probably not overtly talk about Senator McCain's age, that this is a generational change. Barack Obama, 47, John McCain, 72. Which side voters will believe, I think, will be interesting. Do they go with McCain, the older, the senior statesman, with a resume as deep as anyone we've seen run for public office in recent memory? Or do they say, "You know what, the kind of experience that McCain is offering isn't right." In the primary they went with Barack Obama. "I don't have Washington experience, but I have life experience." Will that dynamic--how does that play out? Who wins that fight?

MR. RUSSERT: But, Gerry and John, we're going to have big difference on the big issues. John McCain will say, "We're going to stay in Iraq"; Barack Obama say, "Get out." Barack Obama will say, "Roll back the Bush tax cuts on the top income earners"; John McCain will say, "Keep it going." John McCain will say, "No national healthcare as such"; Barack Obama will say, "national healthcare." Every issue, people are going to have to make a big choice, a big decision. John McCain will say, "No conversations with Iran, period"; Obama will say, "We'll talk to our adversaries." Big differences.

MR. SEIB: Oh, absolutely. You know, I spent some time at Obama headquarters on Friday and that was a lot of the discussion there. You know, people don't realize yet, there's going to be real policy debate in this campaign. This is about to become a real divide between two candidates of different views. Healthcare, I think, is the best example. And in the Hamas episode, which we were just discussing, there is yet another element that was in there, embedded in there, that you didn't mention. We've seen in our Wall Street Journal/NBC News polling all year, the one area where Republicans can still claim an advantage is national security and military affairs. The McCain people are going to go at that time and time again, and that's why John McCain jumped on the Hamas statement so quickly.

MR. HARWOOD: But I do think it's important to point out, Barack Obama was not talking about age in that comment. This was the McCain campaign trying to work the referees in advance, trying to conflate losing his bearings. Barack Obama's been saying similar things. The Straight Talk Express has popped a couple of wheels lately and gone off. It's about--he's making an argument about McCain diverting from principle. But this was the McCain campaign trying to frame the parameters of acceptable argument. And one of the interesting things they're going to make, which many Republicans would find ironic, is McCain's people are going to say that the press is pro-Obama. Now, John McCain's benefited from very friendly press coverage for many years, but he's going to try to argue, which will have corollary benefit of rallying conservatives, if he can pull it off, of saying, "The press wants Obama to win. I'm pushing back, too."

MR. RUSSERT: In 2002, John McCain referred to the press as his base.

MR. HARWOOD: They were his base.

MR. RUSSERT: Speak for yourself, Harwood.

"Pennsylvania Avenue: Profiles and Backroom Power." I'd like to quote for it, gentlemen. And here's what it says. "Divisions have always been part of Pennsylvania Avenue's landscape. ... But today the divisions have taken on a new character. Power is so divided between the two parties that, in a very real sense, nobody has enough control either to paper over differences or to roll past them. Nobody is in charge. ...

"And because the two sides are so evenly divided, the stakes of every battle appear high."

Michele, the McCains, John and Cindy, have said, "We don't want a negative campaign." The Obamas, Barack and Michelle, said we don't want a negative campaign. There were discussions of perhaps having them go out and do joint forums together.

MS. NORRIS: They both seem to be eager to do it.

MR. RUSSERT: To have a discussion of these differences on the issues. Is there a way that if Obama wins or if McCain wins, the next president would really have a different attitude towards Washington and try to work with the other party?

MS. NORRIS: I think it's possible, because you've got two people who've both reached across the aisle and done this. But, you know, they're not islands unto themselves. I mean, if you look at what's going on--the rhetoric on the campaign and what's actually going on in Washington right now, the gridlock that we've seen on Capitol Hill for--I was going to say the last eight years, you could say the last 12 years, you could probably say the last 18 years--they may set the tone, and they can do that in one way. I mean, one of the things that happened when George Bush came to power in Washington, there were many people on Capitol Hill on both sides of the aisle who were a bit upset because he didn't reach out and bring both parties together. The Roosevelt Room is a very powerful space in the White House, where you can bring people and you can sit people down across the aisle and say, "Work this out, talk this out." And if the next president uses that space, uses their power to do that, it might make a difference in Washington.

MR. HARWOOD: Tim, here's why it's going to be different, and this is what Gerry and I write about in this book. Our entire lives have been about the construction of a party system. Two very distinct parties ideologically, consistent basis of support, fairly evenly divide the country. We're going to have, this fall, in Obama and McCain, a much more wide-open campaign, a campaign that puts new issues and new constituencies on the table. This could be the campaign that shakes that framework that we have become accustomed to. Look at two issues. John McCain is going to run as--in favor of a cap and trade system for carbon emissions. He's a different kind of Republican on energy and the environment. Barack Obama is running, significantly, he's not for a mandate on healthcare. I was talking to a business lobbyist the other night who we profiled in this book, Bernadette Budde, said, "People say that Barack Obama--Republicans say he's a conventional liberal. How do you approach him?" She said, "He's a listener. It's going to be a much bigger table with Barack Obama, we can do business with him."

MR. CILLIZZA: You know, Tim, one quick thing, is I actually think the election, aside from the presidential, may change what the two--whoever wins the presidency--looks at. If you look at all the atmospherics down below the presidential level, you are seeing things happen that have to be concerning for Republicans. You've seen them lose two special elections, House special elections in Illinois and Louisiana. One coming up in northern Mississippi, where President Bush won 60 plus percent of the vote, millions of dollars being spent there. If they win three in a row, it suggests that you may be looking at a significant Democratic majority, certainly in the House, maybe in the Senate in 2009. And that could change how the president interacts with Congress.

MR. RUSSERT: The tone of the campaign, I think, will shape the presidency, whether it's Obama or McCain. Michele Norris, Chris Cillizza, Gerry Seib, John Harwood. The book, "Pennsylvania Avenue: Profiles and Backroom Power," and you can read an excerpt of John and Gerry's book on our Web site, msnbc.com, mtp.msnbc.com. Thanks very much, we'll be right back.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT: That's all for today. Watch NBC and MSNBC on Tuesday night for continuing coverage of the West Virginia primary, Clinton vs. Obama. We'll be back next week. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. Don't forget to call home and tell your mama you love her. Happy Mother's Day.

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