'Meet the Press' transcript for May 4, 2008

MR. TIM RUSSERT:  Our issues this Sunday, only 48 hours until the Indiana and North Carolina primaries.  The epic Clinton and Obama battle continues. Issues such as the Reverend Jeremiah Wright and the soaring cost of gasoline and food prices dominate the debate.  With us for the full hour, an exclusive interview with Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama.

Senator Obama, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL):  Thank you so much for having me.

MR. RUSSERT:  On Friday you said, "It's been a rough couple of weeks." An understatement.  What has the controversy over Reverend Jeremiah Wright done to your campaign?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, obviously it's distracted us.  I mean, we ended up spending a lot of time talking about Reverend Wright instead of talking about gas prices and food prices and the situation in Iraq.  And so it, it's, it wasn't welcome.  But, you know, I think that the American people understand that when I joined Trinity United Church of Christ, I was committing not to Pastor Wright, I was committing to a church and I was committing to Christ. And it is a wonderful church.  It's a member of the United Church of Christ, a denomination that dates back to the battles around abolition.  It has lived out, I think the, the social gospel by dealing with poverty and providing shelter to the homeless and, and working on critical issues that make me very proud.  And, as a consequence, when Reverend Wright, who married me and baptized our, our children, when he made those statements, or I learned of those statements that I found so objectionable, I, I felt that they didn't define him.  And so I spoke in Philadelphia about these issues and tried to construct, you know, a, a conversation about issues of race.  But when I saw, this week, him come out and speak in a way that was just as divisive, that didn't explain or apologize, but rather worsened some of the comments that he had made previously, I felt it was very important to make clear that that's not who I am, that's not who I stand for.  I don't think it represented well the church or the African-American church.  And I had to make a clear statement.  Hopefully we've been able to put it behind us.

MR. RUSSERT:  You're still a member of the church?

SEN. OBAMA:  I am.

MR. RUSSERT:  Why do you think he re-emerged?

SEN. OBAMA:  You know, you'd have to ask him.  I, I, I think that it's possible, as a consequence of him retiring, that having the spotlight was something attractive to him.  It may--obviously, he felt that he had been attacked, and, and that's an understandable human emotion.  But what I think he didn't recognize was that, that the very things that our church has advocated for--social justice, dealing effectively with issues like poverty--that those are the issues that are stake--at stake right now.  And the only way we're going to solve them is to bring the country together.  What he said did not bring the country together; it divided the country.  It fed into all of the racial antagonisms and divisions that have haunted this country for so long, and, you know, I did not want to give a platform for that.  I didn't want my presidential campaign to be associated with that, and that's what we tried to make clear this week.

MR. RUSSERT:  What is confusing to some people is why it took so long.  This is what you said back in March in Philadelphia.  Let's watch.

(Videotape)

SEN. OBAMA:  As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me.  He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community.  I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  And yet, less than five weeks later, you have said something much different.  Let's watch that.

(Videotape)

SEN. OBAMA:  I am outraged by the comments that were made, and saddened over the spectacle that we saw yesterday.  His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate.

They offend me, they rightly offend all Americans, and they should be denounced.  And that's what I'm doing very clearly and unequivocally here today.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  What happened in those five weeks?  Because you already knew, prior to the March speech, that he had suggested the U.S. government created the AIDS virus; you knew he went to Libya with Louis Farrakhan; you knew about his hate speech on September 11th, about the chickens coming home to roost and other things.  What did you learn in those five weeks that you didn't know in March?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, you know, previously, there were a bunch of sermons that had been spliced from a collection of sermons for 30 years.  And that's not who I thought he was.  That's not what I thought defined him.  He's somebody who's a Marine, he's somebody who has served on city colleges boards, somebody who was a respected pillar in the community.  And so I thought it was important to--for him to explain or at least provide some context for some of the things that he had said previously.  But when he came out at the press conference of the National Press Club, not only did he amplify some of those comments and defend them vigorously, but he added to it.  He put gasoline on the fire.  And what that told me was not only was he interested in using this platform to continue to make statements that I fundamentally disagree with and that offend me, but also that he didn't have much regard for the moment that we're in right now here in the United States where we can't be distracted or engaged in this divisive, hateful language.  Instead, we've got to bring the country together to solve problems.  And, so in that sense, what became apparent to me was he didn't know me as well as I thought he did, and I certainly didn't know him as well as I thought I did.  And, and that, you know, was disappointing, but something that I had to clearly speak out about.

MR. RUSSERT:  The critics have said he can attack the United States of America, he can do all sorts of things that divide the country, but only when he made it politically uncomfortable for you did you finally separate himself from him.

SEN. OBAMA:  Oh, I think it, back several weeks ago, it was already pretty politically comfortable, you know, when his statements were being looped on cable stations 24 hours a day for about five straight days.  That was already politically uncomfortable, and--but, you know, I did what I thought was right, which was to denounce the words, not denounce the man.

You know, what, what really changed was a sense that he was going to double down on the statements that he had made before, and, and to me that told, that, that indicated to me that he was not--that he did not share my fundamental belief and my fundamental values in terms of bringing the country together and moving forward, and the pride that I've got for this country. And, you know, one thing that I want to make absolutely clear is that what's best about this country, what, what leads me to run for president is that we've been a force for good in the world.  We have obviously made mistakes--and I spoke about this in Philadelphia--we have a tragic history when it comes to race.  But that doesn't define us, and it certainly doesn't define me.  And I don't want his words to somehow distract from what I think are the opportunities for us to move this country forward in, in ways that continue on the progress that we've made in the past.

MR. RUSSERT:  When you announced your candidacy back in February of '07 in Springfield...

SEN. OBAMA:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...the same place Abraham Lincoln announced his candidacy--and we're showing it there on the screen--Reverend Wright was going to give the invocation, he was disinvited.  He told The New York Times that you said to him, "You get kind of rough in the sermons, so we decided it's best for you not to be out there in public." And you cited a Rolling Stone interview...

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...where he said that one of the essential facts about the U.S. is, "We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God." Now, that is so contrary to a speech I heard you gave yesterday about one nation, one people.

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  So you knew in '07...

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  ..."This guy's a problem.  I have to keep him out of the spotlight involving my campaign."

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.  Sure.

MR. RUSSERT:  Why didn't you just say then, "You know, Reverend, we're going on different paths because this country does not believe in white supremacy and black inferiority."

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.  Well, my commitment, as I said, Tim, is to the church, not to a pastor.  And I think that's shared by millions of people who are going to church this morning.  You, you join a church community, and Reverend Wright helped build a wonderful church community, one that has been a pillar of good works in Chicago, and, you know, I feel a great loyalty to that church.  Reverend Wright was going to be retiring in a year, and I thought it was important for me to maintain my commitment to that church.

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