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'Meet the Press' transcript for April 27, 2008
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 Netcast April 27: Exclusive! Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean joins us this Sunday to talk about the Clinton-Obama race and the effect the extended primary season is having on his Party. Then, a political roundtable on Decision 2008 with David Broder, John Dickerson, Gwen Ifill, Andrea Mitchell & Richard Wolffe. |
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MR. RUSSERT: The popular vote--the Obama people are saying if the popular vote is going to be the main determinate in all this, then we--why go to Iowa, why go to New Hampshire, why have a caucus rather than a primary? We would have had a much different strategy.
DR. DEAN: Yeah, you know, the one thing I'm not going to do is get into the various merits of the arguments between the candidates on popular vote or delegate vote. I, I'm here to say what the rules are, I'm not here to side with Senator Obama or Senator Clinton on these arguments. The voters will make their decisions about those arguments.
MR. RUSSERT: But delegates nominate, not popular vote.
DR. DEAN: That's right. That's right. You know, we're spending a lot of time on process, and I think most Americans care about whether they want to be in Iraq or not for a hundred years, about the economy, about health care. I think they care about John McCain's reinvention of himself after the Keating Five. Turned out he wasn't such a reformer, as it was. Those are I think the, the things people...
MR. RUSSERT: Well...
DR. DEAN: ...are worried about.
MR. RUSSERT: ...but the Democrats are very worried about who's going to be the nominee and whether or not the result will reflect the primary process.
DR. DEAN: The reason Democrats are so interested in this is they want change. Look at the number of people who've voted. They're going to be at 35 million people who've voted in the primaries. There'll be more people who voted in Texas for Senator Clinton and Senator Obama combined than voted for--in the general election for the Democrat in 2004. People want change in this country. You can't get change without a, a different party controlling the White House. John McCain is four more years of George Bush. He supports George Bush right down the line on all these issues. They want change. That's why this is such an intense election. Not because there's a fight over the superdelegates or the popular vote or--people want fundamental change in this country and they can't get it unless Senator Clinton or Senator Obama is elected.
MR. RUSSERT: But you yourself have said unless the Democratic Party's united they will have a very difficult time in the fall.
DR. DEAN: That's right. And that's...
MR. RUSSERT: So I'm--I want to focus on this unity question because when you talked to the NAACP in 2005 you were talking about black and white Americans. And you said, "The one thing the Democratic Party will never do, we'll--we will never divide Americans to win elections. We'll never do that." And black Americans heard that and listened to it, and they point to this, Governor. In 2004 here is the black vote: Bush 11, Kerry 88 percent. In 2000: Bush 9 percent, Gore 90 percent. And now many African-Americans, Congressman Clyburn and others, are saying, in effect, if Barack Obama ends this contest with more elected delegates and the superdelegates decide, "Well, you know what? We're not going to nominate him. We're going to opt for Hillary Clinton," what will black Americans do? What will black Democrats do who have been the most loyal component of the Democratic Party?
DR. DEAN: You know, I--this is, this is pretty hypothetical. There's a lot of if, if, if, and you and I have both raised teenagers and we both know you don't answer too may hypothetical questions before you get in a lot of trouble. So, you know, if, if, if, if. The, the--we don't divide people. The Republicans have scapegoated minority groups for a long time. First they pointed the fingers at African-Americans by calling what--affirmative action as a quota system. Then they pointed the finger at gay Americans with an anti-gay marriage stuff on all the ballots where gay marriage was already illegal anyway. Now they're pointing the fingers at immigrants and, by extension, Hispanic and Asian-Americans. We don't do that in this party. Now we happen to have an African-American candidate and a woman candidate, and clearly those groups of folks who have historically been disenfranchised in our political process have their favorites because there's an emotional pull towards those candidates. See, at the end of the day, we have to bring that together, and as I said at the opening of the show, the most important person to bring those folks together is the person who doesn't win.
MR. RUSSERT: But this is how deeply-seated the feelings are. Again, Congressman Clyburn talking about former President Bill Clinton. He said, "Mr. Clinton's conduct in this campaign had caused what might be an irreparable breach between Mr. Clinton and an African-American constituency that once revered him."
"When he was going through his impeachment problems, it was the black community that bellied up to the bar. ... I think black folks feel strongly this is a strange way for President Clinton to show his appreciation."
"Clyburn added there were appeared to be an almost unanimous view among African-Americans that Mr. and Mrs. Clinton were committed to doing everything they possibly could to damage Mr. Obama to a point that he could never win in the general election."
DR. DEAN: Well, I--you know, again, I have enormous respect for Jim Clyburn, who I consider a great personal friend, but I'm not going to get in the middle of a fight over--between the Obama and the Clinton people, so I'm not going to have any comment on that.
MR. RUSSERT: But if, in fact, the nomination was denied to Obama, who won the most elected delegates, could you unite the party?
DR. DEAN: Tim, that hasn't happened, and I don't expect it to happen. I expect us to go forward united, and I expect either one of these candidates, whichever one loses, to support the other.
MR. RUSSERT: But it could become very difficult.
DR. DEAN: Everything can be very difficult in life, and you got to work hard to make sure it isn't.
MR. RUSSERT: Mitch...
DR. DEAN: Which is one reason, I might add, that I'd like all the unpledged folks to say who they're for by the end of this next month, so that we have the time that's necessary to heal the party. We need change. Women need change, Africa-Americans need change, Americans need a change. And this party can deliver change, but only if we're together.
MR. RUSSERT: So play out the primaries through June, and then have the superdelegates, undecided, commit themselves?
DR. DEAN: Well, no. I think they should continue to commit themselves, you know, from now, as they have been over the past few weeks--about 50 or 60 more have committed themselves. Just keep dribbling it in. We've got--I, I, I don't know, almost three--two-thirds of them committed, and just keep going right on down and commit as you have been...
MR. RUSSERT: You'd like them all announced by when?
DR. DEAN: I would like everybody to say who they're for by the end of June.
MR. RUSSERT: End of June.
Michigan and Florida. There is a report--reports that the Democratic National Committee is having a meeting on May 31st...
DR. DEAN: Right.
MR. RUSSERT: ...which may in fact say to Michigan and Florida, "Well, you broke the rules, you moved your primary dates up without permission, but we're going to give you half delegates, half your elected count, half your superdelegate count come, come convention time." Is that true?
DR. DEAN: Well, I don't know about the--what the Rules Committee's going to do. I have no idea what they're going to do. But here's the deal. First, you got to respect the voters. The voters of Michigan and Florida were not the people that screwed this all up, it was politicians. Secondly, you have to respect the candidates. They went in on a set of rules that everybody voted for, including Michigan and Florida, before they changed their mind, but--and so you can't really change the rules and alter the course of the race. And thirdly, you got to respect the 48 states that did respect the rules.
Here's why the rules are important. For the--this year, for the first time, we balanced the early primaries with ethnic and geographic diversity. We included a state from the South and a state from the West, because we think we can win there now. And we included states with significant numbers of minority groups who the Democrats can't win without, and those folks ought to be allowed to say early on who they think should be the president. Now along comes two states which steps on the process. You've got to deal with that in a fair way. So I don't know what the solution's going to be. The Rules Committee's going to start to work on that now as they prepare for the meeting at the end of May. But nobody will be satisfied with the outcome because nobody's going to get everything they want. What we strive is to be fair to the voters, fair to both campaigns, and fair to the other 48 states.
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