'Meet the Press' transcript for April 13, 2008

MR. MURPHY:  Could, but I think that's a safe bet for McCain to make because that's the winning campaign for McCain.  And he's moving--big economic speech next week, this tour.  He's moving in that direction while the Clinton-Obama contest continues and gets even nastier with Clinton brought back to life by this new gaffe over small town America.

MR. RUSSERT:  Mary Matalin, if John McCain distances himself from George W. Bush and the Republican base, emphasizes things like climate change, like political reform, what does that do to the Republican turnout?

MS. MATALIN:  He's--he is wearing very well.  He is, he is speaking the language of base conservatives while not running a base campaign.  Right now he's getting five times more crossovers, Democrats, than either of those--the Democrats are getting Republicans.  He's getting twice as many independents as they are getting, and he's winning on all the issues.  He's laid out a growth economic plan, he's laid out a practical housing crisis plan, and people are not going to listen to this old-timey polemics--or palaver of...

MR. SHRUM:  The one, the one thing that's untrue...

MS. MATALIN:  ...you people...

MR. SHRUM:  ...Mary, is he's not winning on all the issues.

MS. MATALIN:  Yes, he is.

MR. SHRUM:  In fact, as Tim pointed out, what's remarkable is that he's running the race he is while he's losing on those issues.  I ultimately think those issues reassert themselves.  But let's be honest about this.  Tim's right, McCain was the strongest Republican candidate.  He is, while the Democrats continue to fight, reaching out, trying to do his best.  He's got to give an economic speech next week where it sounds like he actually isn't bored by reading his own words, but...

MS. MATALIN:  Why do you keep saying clownish things like that?

MR. SHRUM:  ...listen, I wish they had nominated someone else, because I think John McCain is the strongest Republican.

MS. MATALIN:  Look, John...

MR. RUSSERT:  You also, Bob Shrum, urged the Democrats to lower the rhetoric a little bit.

MR. SHRUM:  Yes.

MR. RUSSERT:  On both sides.

MR. SHRUM:  Yes.  I think, I think that the constant temptation to attack--I mean, the suggestion that Barack Obama, coming from Senator Clinton, was not--or at least the omission that he's capable of being commander in chief, the--some of the attacks back at her, they defend them as counterattacks--I think this process can go on--will go on at least through Indiana and North Carolina.  But people ought to be out there selling their own message.  I actually think Hillary Clinton has a message now.  She's talking about the economy...

MS. MATALIN:  (Unintelligible).

MR. SHRUM:  ...it's a much more populist message.  That's what she ought to be doing, not attacking him.

MR. CARVILLE:  Right.

MR. SHRUM:  And at the end of the process, when it's clear that one of them is going to win--and I don't think she has much more than a 10 percent chance of winning.  But when it's clear who has won, we should stop.

MR. RUSSERT:  James Carville, since you were last on you made a little news.

MR. CARVILLE:  I did.

MR. RUSSERT:  When Bill Richardson endorsed Barack Obama, you offered this comment:  "An act of betrayal.  ...  Mr. Richardson's endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing [Holy Week] is appropriate, if ironic."

Bill Richardson has now responded.  "Carville and others say that I owe President Clinton's wife my endorsement because he gave me two jobs.  Would someone who worked for Carville then owe his wife, Mary Matalin, similar loyalty in her professional pursuits?  ...  And while I was truly torn for weeks about this decision and seriously contemplated endorsing Senator Clinton, I never told anyone, including President Clinton, that I would do so. Those who say I did are misinformed or worse."

MR. CARVILLE:  Well, first of all, I, I, I did say that and the reporter had--I was a little disappointed, it was like "graph 7." I was expecting it to be a little higher in the story.

MR. RUSSERT:  You were quoted accurately?

MR. CARVILLE:  Yes, sir.  In...

MR. RUSSERT:  And in context?

MR. CARVILLE:  In context and, and, and, and also, I'm very happy that I said it.  And--but I, I could say any number of things.  I know what happened, I know what representations were made to President Clinton when Governor Richardson begged him to go watch the Super Bowl to him.  I gave names of fundraisers that he told things to.  I'll, I'll let this go.  I'm glad I said it.  Governor Richardson knows that know the truth.  He knows the truth in all of this, and he's made his decision.  By the way, I have never criticized a Senator Obama supporter.  Bobby Casey, who I campaigned for six times, who, who I revered his father, that's his business.  I said he was an honorable man.  He made a decision he thought was in the best interest of this country. Senator, Senator Kennedy, Senator Kerry, Senator Daschle, Rosa DeLauro, all these people.  I thought this was a special case that merited special attention.  I gave it special attention, and I'm glad I did.

MR. RUSSERT:  All right.  Before we go, you say McCain-Colin Powell.

MR. CARVILLE:  I...

MR. RUSSERT:  On the Democratic side, Obama-who, Clinton-who?

MR. CARVILLE:  I, I, I think that on the Democratic side, and I think it--Obama's thinking out loud at these fundraisers is something that he's going to have to learn to stop doing, OK?

MR. SHRUM:  Oh, I think he learned.

MR. CARVILLE:  Yeah, I think...

MR. RUSSERT:  Particularly in San Francisco.

MR. CARVILLE:  I, I, I, I think it is very important, Demo--to understand, the nature of a Democrat is, is this thing is going to be--if, if, if, he wins, and I--it's a--he should have a little better chance than 10 percent, but he's got a better chance right now, I would--I will agree with that, and I think Indiana's pivotal, how the winner treats the loser is going to be very important.  Democrats, if they, if, if, if they don't show respect, and I think it's less important that he pick Senator Clinton if he wins, or Senator Clinton wins picks Senator Obama, but they have to show a lot of respect because this thing has been a really hard fight, both of these candidates have been it for a long time, and that's what Democrats want.

MR. RUSSERT:  But you could see them running together.

MR. CARVILLE:  I could see it.  I think the chances are, are, are not 50/50, but it's very possible.  There's a big history of that happening.

MR. RUSSERT:  Who are the tickets, Mary?  McCain?

MS. MATALIN:  Boy, that would be--that would be a dream ticket for us if they ran together.

MR. RUSSERT:  All right, who are the tickets.  McCain, who?

MS. MATALIN:  McCain and somebody that is--can govern, that is a credible governor.  The notion that he has to pick somebody that's fairly already know, it's somebody that can get known, but they have to have good cred on having experience across the board.  Dick Cheney has changed the nature of that office.  He--this, this brilliant man has made that office completely...

MR. RUSSERT:  Is Condi Rice relevant?

MS. MATALIN:  Con--you know, what people don't know about Dr. Rice is that she weighed in on every domestic issue before the president when...

MR. RUSSERT:  But wouldn't that be third-term Bush?

MR. SHRUM:  Yeah.

MR. MURPHY:  Yeah.

MS. MATALIN:  You know, people are not--people are sick of this Bush bashing stuff.

MR. CARVILLE:  Condi--Condi who?

MR. RUSSERT:  Come on, Murphy.  Come on, Murphy, give us the tickets.

MR. MURPHY:  The candidates could be anybody, but I think it'll be a governor.  Either Pawlenty, Ridge or Romney.  That would be my best prediction.

MR. RUSSERT:  On the Democrat side?

MR. MURPHY:  You know, I think Obama might try the--either the anti-war general, which is great on paper, really hard to do.  Or maybe a reform male--Bloomberg, a Tom Kean, some Republican to do the bipartisan thing.  I don't know, but it will be awful clever.

MR. RUSSERT:  McCain with Romney or...

MR. SHRUM:  Rob Portman, the former congressman from Ohio.  I think you have to bet that Obama's going to be the nominee, and I think under those circumstances he'll pick someone with a military background despite what he said, and I think Wes Clark might be it.

MR. CARVILLE:  By a long-shot and I don't know if it's even a Democrat, but I think General James Jones.  General Zinni, maybe a four-star Marine general, NATO commander.  I mean it might not even be, but somebody like that would be--I'm a former Marine.  Let's get somebody from the corps there.

MR. RUSSERT:  To be continued.  To be continued.

Mary Matalin, James Carville, Mike Murphy, Bob Shrum.  We'll be right back. What a morning of politics.

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MR. RUSSERT:  Start your day tomorrow on "Today" with Matt and Meredith and the "NBC Nightly News" with Brian Williams.

That's all for today.  We'll be back next week.  If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.

Congratulations to the Boston College Eagles, NCAA champions in hockey.  Bring it home.

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