'Meet the Press' transcript for April 13, 2008

MR. MURPHY:  Well, yeah, but I, I, I can't buy into that because--I agree it's been an awful campaign, but I--it's been the, you know, gold standard in awful campaigns.  But Hillary Clinton, it's a little different for her because the campaign is a bigger part of her managerial biography.  She was not elected governor of Arkansas.  She was not elected president of the United States.  This was the first big important enterprise, other than the health care reform, that she's had direct managerial responsibility for, and it has been a disaster.  I salute her tenacity, I agree with that.  But it has not been a smart campaign, an insightful campaign, or a well-run campaign, and that is a metric by which to judge her presidency.

MR. RUSSERT:  One last point on Senator Obama.  Elitist, condescending, words that are being used to describe him in light of his comments about small-town America.  Also at that same fundraiser in San Francisco this has been written:

"At a fundraiser in San Francisco last weekend, Obama was answering a question about what he" could--"would look for in a running mate if he wins the nomination.  `I would like somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on,' he replied.  `I think a lot of people assume that might be some kind of military thing to make me look more commander-in-chief-like. Ironically, this is an area--foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain.'"

MR. CARVILLE:  Well, I, I mean, he's--I guess...

MS. MATALIN:  Based on what?

MR. CARVILLE:  Yeah, I agree.

MR. SHRUM:  You know how that'll be judged in the end?  That'll be judged if he's the nominee by how they perform in the debates.  It's very much like John Kennedy and Richard Nixon in '60.  Nixon said experience counts; Kennedy went in to the debates.  People looked at the debates, they said Kennedy can do the job.  That's how that issue's going to be decided.

MR. CARVILLE:  I, I, I would expect anybody who runs for president would think that they're better than, than, than the other person, but I don't exactly--I mean, to be honest with you, I was a little bit--what is he looking for in a running mate?  Maybe somebody more economically grounded?  I, I'm not sure what the comment meant, but I admire, I admire his, his kind of thinking that, "Look, I know this."

MR. MURPHY:  I, I think one of the political rules of running-mate picking is to be sure not to choose somebody who looks like a signal by your weaknesses. You know, where you choose what you're not to remind everybody what you're not, because generally the VP doesn't do a lot for you.  I think he needs a small town, gun owning pro-Christian now--so I nominate Carville--who's also valuable.

MR. CARVILLE:  (Unintelligible).  Does that count?  I could shoot a gun before I could ride a bike.

MR. RUSSERT:  So then John McCain shouldn't pick someone young?

MR. MURPHY:  If, if John McCain picks a young guy in a jogging suit, it's a incredibly stupid move because it's like the casting rule.  You know, if you're Robert Redford's agent, and they want Brad Pitt to be the co-star, and you're like, "No, we want Ernest Borgnine." You know, it's a balancing act. So, no, I don't, I don't, you can be too clever by half.

MR. SHRUM:  Look, you know the political, you know the political rule that this whole Obama thing illustrates?  There's no such thing as a closed fundraiser.  In the era of the cell phones...

MR. MURPHY:  Yeah.

MR. SHRUM:  ...where anybody can record anything...

MR. CARVILLE:  Right.

MR. SHRUM:  ...you're on camera or on the air all the time.

MR. CARVILLE:  It does.

MS. MATALIN:  I go back to this point:  He's not as good a candidate as he professes to be, and all the superdelegates...

MR. SHRUM:  You, I know you hope this, Mary.  I know you hope this.

MS. MATALIN:  I have no dog in this fight.

MR. MURPHY:  But it's the...(unintelligible)...the issue.

MR. SHRUM:  The only thing that, the only thing I like, Mary, is that you consistently defend Senator Clinton, and I look forward, a few months from now, if she's the nominee, to seeing what you say when you come on this show.

MS. MATALIN:  Did I defend her?  I have--I am not for them.  I'm for John McCain.  He's not a good candidate.  You superdelegates are supposed to be there for a purpose, not to follow the will of the people, but get somebody who can win in...

MR. CARVILLE:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  Mr. Murphy, you also worked for Mitt Romney.

MR. MURPHY:  Yes.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you think he'd be a good running mate?

MR. MURPHY:  Well, of all the hardball questions, Tim, I've ever--yeah, I actually think he would be a very good running mate.

MR. RUSSERT:  Oh, I knew I'd get him on that one!

MR. MURPHY:  McCain--ah, you got me on it!  No, no, but look.  Three reasons: I don't--you know, the first reasons are:  good person, but there are a lot of people like that the, in the top list.  But what I like about Romney is, the right states.  He's kind of a prime minister type who can talk very good about the economy, and I think his fundraising energy is something the Republican Party's going to need against the Barack Obama money machine.

MR. CARVILLE:  Why're we having this conversation?  Everybody knows who John McCain's needs to pick:  Colin Powell.  The man has no other...

MR. SHRUM:  Oh...

MR. CARVILLE:  Yes, if he picks Powell...

MS. MATALIN:  What sense is--oh, James.

MR. CARVILLE:  If he picks Powell, OK, what, what--the person that somebody ought to pick is the one that makes...

MR. MURPHY:  Talk about a...(unintelligible)...from the Democrats.  Powell's great, but then it's a debate on...(unintelligible).

MR. SHRUM:  I don't think Powell would do it.

MR. SHRUM:  I think, I think...(unintelligible).

MR. CARVILLE:  What--I think that would be the strongest candidate.  That'd be the strongest candidate, by far!

MR. RUSSERT:  All right, but Colin, Colin Powell's spoken about this.  So we're going to take a quick break, come back and talk about Colin Powell's advice to McCain, Clinton and Obama about Iraq.  Be right back with these four extraordinary political strategists after this.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  More on this historic race for the White House after this brief station break.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  And we are back.

Mr. Carville, this rolled out on the table, Colin Powell as VP for John McCain.  He was on television after General Petraeus testified before Congress, was talking about Iraq and what the next president of the United States--be it Republican or Democrat--would have to do.  Let's listen.

(Videotape)

MR. COLIN POWELL:  I'll tell you what they're all going to face, whichever one of them becomes president on January 21st of 2009.  They will face a military force--a United States military force that cannot sustain--continually sustain 140,000 people deployed in Iraq and the 20-odd or 25,000 people we have deployed in Afghanistan and our other deployments.  They will have to continue to draw down at some pace.  None of them are going to have the flexibility of just saying, "We're out of here.  Turn off the switch, turn off the lights, we're leaving."

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Mary Matalin, basically he's saying to John McCain, "Don't say we're staying for a long time, because we can't," and saying to Clinton and to Obama, "Don't say you're getting out quickly, because it's going to take a little time."

MS. MATALIN:  Right.  So--but, but what he's essentially saying, and the argument that's going to be before the electorate and why the Democrats are going to lose this argument is are we at war?  If you think this is a situation to be managed, then you have a set of criteria for going forward. If you think it's a war, if you think they are at war with us and we need to, to defend ourselves, then we have to figure out a way to deploy what we have that ensures our security.  And it's, it's going to look different--we've been saying the same thing for five years--than it's--than any previous war's ever looked at.  And what the Democrats are trying to do, because they cannot win this argument that we're not at war, now they want to talk about the cost.  So their, their, their subargument is then the cost of defeat is less than the cost of victory.  So...

MR. SHRUM:  That's not my argument.  My, my argument is that no one was at war with us in Iraq until we went to war with Iraq, number one.  Number two, a reasonable period of time to get out, 16 months, 18 months, two years.  That is a reasonable period of time to get out.  Number three, John McCain benefited from the surge during primaries.  He has now made himself a hostage to events in Iraq, and, as we saw in Basra in the last couple of weeks, as we can read in David Broder's column in The Washington Post this morning where he said there's been no political progress at all, I don't think John McCain's going to win the argument on the war.  I think he's going to be hurt badly in the next few months by being all-out for the war.

MR. MURPHY:  That's the Democratic primary argument.

MS. MATALIN:  Right.

MR. MURPHY:  In the general election, this has yet to really be fought out.

MR. SHRUM:  Why do you guys keep saying that?

MR. MURPHY:  Because it is.

MR. SHRUM:  Sixty-five percent of people...

MS. MATALIN:  Because.

MR. SHRUM:  ...oppose the war.

MS. MATALIN:  They're for it when you, when you--this is why you resist talking about progress.

MR. SHRUM:  I don't know why you keep saying it.  This is not 2004.

MR. MURPHY:  No, that's...

MS. MATALIN:  Because they're for it and they think it's worth it when they understand that progress is being made.  That's why you keep denying that progress is being made.  Do you know what political progress is?  People telling our soldiers where these roadside bombs are being buried.  That's a political progress.

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