'Meet the Press' transcript for March 9, 2008

MR. TIM RUSSERT:  Our issues this Sunday:  Last night Barack Obama bounces back and wins the Wyoming caucuses after Hillary Clinton's big victories Tuesday in Ohio and Texas.  What now?  For the Obama campaign, the former Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle of South Dakota.  For the Clinton campaign, the governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell.  Daschle and Rendell square off as surrogates for Obama and Clinton.

Then, Obama adviser Samantha Power resigns after calling Hillary Clinton a monster.  Clinton adviser Howard Wolfson accuses Barack Obama of acting like former special prosecutor Ken Starr.  Will the tone of this campaign hurt the Democrats in November?  With us, Dan Balz of The Washington Post, Ron Brownstein of the National Journal, John Harwood of CNBC and The New York Times, and Gwen Ifill of PBS' "Washington Week" and "The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer."

But first, last night Barack Obama received 61 percent of the vote to Hillary Clinton's 38 percent in the Wyoming caucuses.  Obama wins seven delegates, Clinton five.  Next stop, the Mississippi primary on Tuesday night.  Joining us now for the Obama campaign, Senator Tom Daschle; for the Clinton campaign, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell.

Gentlemen, welcome both.

FMR. SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD):  Thank you, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let's...

GOV. ED RENDELL (D-PA):  Thanks, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let's go right to it.  Here are the latest delegate counts according to NBC News.  Obama, elected delegates, 1374; Clinton, 1232.  That's an Obama lead of 142.  Superdelegates:  Obama, 215; Clinton, 254.  Since Super Tuesday Obama has gained 45 elected delegates, Clinton has lost six.  Thus far, total contests, Obama has won 27; Clinton, 14.  The popular vote is tight:  Obama, 13.1 million; Clinton 12.5 million.  That's 49-to-47.

Here are the upcoming states:  On Tuesday, Mississippi, followed by Pennsylvania, Guam, Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Montana, South Dakota and Puerto Rico.  Those states represent 599 delegates still to be chosen.

Senator Daschle, how does this end?

FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  Well, this ends when somebody gets the most amount of delegates, Tim, and I think Barack Obama's going to do that some time in this process.  We've got 12 to go--11, I think, now to go, and I believe that, that each one of these contests are going to be hard fought.  We're going to have to work hard, we're going to have to be there as competitively as we were this, this last week.  And, as we saw in Wyoming, I think we're going to win the majority of those delegates.  We, we feel very good about what happened in Wyoming yesterday.  We feel equally as good about what's going to happen in Minnesota--in Mississippi on Tuesday.

MR. RUSSERT:  Should the candidate who has the most elected delegates be the nominee?

FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  Absolutely.  I don't see how we could possibly do anything other than respect the will of the people who have voted in caucus and primary states all over the country.  And what it would say to the world, to the country that we'd overturn the verdict of those, of those elections would be travesty for, for the party and for the country.

MR. RUSSERT:  So if Hillary Clinton had more elected delegates, you, as a superdelegate, would vote for Hillary Clinton?

FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  I have said that I think the superdelegates ought to respect the vote of the elected, the pledged delegates.  And I'm prepared to do that, even if Hillary is the nominee.

MR. RUSSERT:  What if Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote, cumulative popular vote?

FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  Well, again, I think it's the delegates at the convention, they're going to be the ones who are going to be making the rules for the convention.  They're going to be deciding, ultimately, who the candidates are going to be.  It really ought to be the, the pledged delegates, the committed delegates, the people who are there who were elected to take that, that position.  We want to--I'm from a smaller state.  Obviously, I've benefitted over the years from having equal representation in the Senate.  I think delegates really are the ones who ought to set the criteria and make, ultimately, the, the final judgment as to who the nominee's going to be.

MR. RUSSERT:  And if the Clinton campaign says, "Hold on a second, Senator. We won California and New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Texas.  We're going to win Pennsylvania.  We can win those big states, the states that you need to win in a November election.  We would be, Clinton, the stronger nominee."

FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  Well, I, you know, when--a poll was just taken, Tim, that showed Barack winning far more states than Hillary.  There is no question--you ask any elected official, virtually any elected official west of the Mississippi and they say, without equivocation, "We want Barack Obama at the top of the ticket." They'll say that privately.  So there is no question that, that Barack can win nationwide.  We're going to have a 50-state strategy, we're going to be effective in states and bring people into the process, unlike we've seen in--at any time in history.  And so we're very excited, very confident, very comfortable with the, with the knowledge that we're going to win big states, small states.  It doesn't matter who's at the top of the ticket, I think the Democrat's going to be in a very commanding position in New York and California, and I think we can even put Texas in play this year.

MR. RUSSERT:  Governor Rendell, if, in fact, Barack Obama goes to the convention in Colorado in August with the most elected delegates, having won more contests and a higher popular vote, the cumulative vote, could he be denied the nomination?

GOV. RENDELL:  Well, sure, Tim, because, number one, Hillary Clinton has won states with about 260 electoral votes.  Barack Obama has won states with about 190.  And we decide the presidency not by a popular vote, we decide it by the electoral vote.  And the traditional role of the superdelegates is to determine who's going to be our strongest candidate.  Tim, you and I have been doing this for a long time, as Tom has, and we know the big four in any presidential election recently are Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida and Michigan. And in all four of those states--Pennsylvania hasn't voted yet, but I assume we're going to do real well--Hillary Clinton will have taken those states, if it--she takes Pennsylvania, and will have taken them by significant majorities.  She's clearly the strongest candidate in the states that Democrats must win to have a chance.  Look, it's great that Barack Obama is doing wonderfully well in Wyoming and Utah and, and places like that, but there's no chance we're going to carry those states.  Whether he gets 44 percent as opposed to 39 percent doesn't matter, but we're not going to carry those states.  We do have a chance to carry the big four.  We've got to in three of the big four.  Hillary Clinton's the strongest candidate to do that. That's been proven by the voters in the--those states and hopefully by Pennsylvania as well.

MR. RUSSERT:  But, Governor, you're counting Florida when, in fact, the candidates did not campaign in Florida.  So you--are you suggesting Hillary Clinton won?

GOV. RENDELL:  Oh, there's no question.  In an even playing field, nobody campaigned, 1.7 million Floridians voted, and she won by 17 percent.  But I have a suggestion, if you don't like that, Tim, or if Tom doesn't like that, let's revote in Michigan and Florida.  Let's end all the suspense.  If our campaign is wrong and we are not going to be the strongest in those states, let the voters choose it.  And Tom always talks about--the Obama folks talk about undemocratic.  How can the Democratic Party go to Denver and deny the people of Michigan and Florida, two crucial states, a voice in this, in this nominating process?  Makes no sense at all.  Let's revote, and let's see how we do.

MR. RUSSERT:  But in Michigan, you'll acknowledge that you have said repeatedly that the Clinton campaign cannot make the statement that they won Michigan.

GOV. RENDELL:  Right.  Which is why I'm calling for a revote.

MR. RUSSERT:  OK.

GOV. RENDELL:  I'm calling for a revote.  But, Tim, you run against uncommitted, that's the toughest election to win.  I think Tom would agree. I'd rather run against an opponent anytime than against uncommitted, and Hillary Clinton got 55 percent of the vote against uncommitted.  But I agree, I think we should revote.  What's wrong with revoting?  Why is the Obama camp so silent on that issue?

MR. RUSSERT:  What--who would pay for that, Governor, for the primaries or caucuses in Michigan or Florida?

GOV. RENDELL:  Governor Corzine and I sent a letter to The Washington Post, and we said, not knowing what James Carville was going to say, we said that we would help raise the approximately $15 million which would be half of the $30 million it would take to run those two contests.  And given all the money that the Obama campaign and the Clinton campaign are spending, I think they can dig in, and their supporters can dig in, to their pockets and help the states of Michigan and Florida have a revote.

MR. RUSSERT:  Would you accept the caucus in Michigan?

GOV. RENDELL:  No.  Caucuses are undemocratic.  That's another thing.  We talk about the superdelegates being undemocratic.  If you're a caucus, older people can't vote, older people who vote by absentee ballot.  There's no absentee ballots in a caucus.  Tim, if you're a shift worker and a lot of our workers, because they're low-income workers, are shift workers, you can't vote in a caucus.  So we want primaries.  That's the way we elect presidents.  We don't have caucuses to elect presidents in the fall.  Let's have a primary. Let's decide this.  Let's hear from the Obama campaign about a revote in Florida and Michigan.

MR. RUSSERT:  So the Iowa caucus, the Nevada caucus were undemocratic.

GOV. RENDELL:  Undemocratic compared to primaries, yes.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator...

GOV. RENDELL:  Absolutely.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator...

GOV. RENDELL:  Tim, do you believe, do you believe older people should have the right to vote?  They can't in a caucus because they can't get out of the house.  So you're disenfranchising some of the most important voters in the fall election.  How about that shift worker who works 4 to 12? He can't vote. He might really want to vote, but he can't.

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