Feb. 26 Democratic debate transcript

Sen. Obama: Brian, I'm sorry, I'm getting -- I'm a little filibustered a little bit here.

Williams: The last answer on this topic.

Sen. Obama: It is just not accurate to say that Senator Clinton does more to control costs than mine. That is not the case. There are many experts who've concluded that she does not.

I do provide a mandate for children because, number one, we have created a number of programs in which we can have greater assurance that those children will be covered at an affordable price.

On the point of many adults, we don't want to put in a situation in which on the front end we are mandating them, we are forcing them to purchase insurance, and if the subsidies are inadequate the burden is on them and they will be penalized. And that is what Senator Clinton's plan does.

Now, I am happy to have a discussion with Senator Clinton about how we can both achieve the goal of universal health care. What I do not accept, and which is what Senator Clinton has consistently done -- and, in fact, the same experts she cites basically say there's no real difference between our plans, that they are not substantial -- but it has to do with how we're going to achieve universal health care.

That is an area where I believe that, if we make it affordable, people will purchase it. In fact, Medicare Part B is not mandated. It is voluntary, and yet people over 65 choose to purchase it, Hillary. And the reason they choose to purchase it is because it's a good deal.

And if people in Cleveland or anywhere in Ohio end up seeing a plan that is affordable for them, I promise you they are snatching it up because they are desperate to get health care. And that's what I intend to provide as president of the United States.

Williams: Senators, I'm going to change the subject.

Sen. Clinton: About 20 percent of the people who are uninsured have the means to buy insurance. They're often young people who think they're immortal...

Sen. Obama: Which is why I cover them.

Sen. Clinton: ... except when the illness or the accident strikes. And what Senator Obama has said, that then, once you get to the hospital, you'll be forced to buy insurance, I don't think that's a good idea. We ought to plan for it, and we ought to make sure we cover everyone. That is the only way to get to universal health care coverage.

Sen. Obama: With respect...

Sen. Clinton: That is what I've worked for, for 15 years...

Sen. Obama: With respect...

Sen. Clinton: ... and I believe that we can achieve it. But if we don't even have a plan to get there and we start out by leaving people, you'll never, ever control costs, improve quality, and cover everyone.

Sen. Obama: With respect to the young people, my plan specifically says that, up until the age of 25, you will be able to be covered under your parents' insurance plan. So that cohort that Senator Clinton is talking about will, in fact, have coverage.

Williams: Well, a 16-minute discussion on health care is certainly a start.
I'd like to change up...

Sen. Clinton: Well, there's hardly anything more important. I think it would be good to talk about health care...

Williams: Well, here's another important topic, and that's NAFTA, especially where we're sitting here tonight. And this is a tough one, depending on who you ask.

The Houston Chronicle has called it a "big win" for Texas, but Ohio Democratic Senator Brown, your colleagues in the Senate, has called it a "job-killing" trade agreement.

Senator Clinton, you've campaigned in south Texas. You've campaigned here in Ohio. Who's right?

Sen. Clinton: Well, could I just point out that, in the last several debates, I seem to get the first question all the time? And I don't mind. You know, I'll be happy to field them, but I do find it curious. And if anybody saw "Saturday Night Live," you know, maybe we should ask Barack if he's comfortable and needs another pillow.

I just find it kind of curious that I keep getting the first question on all of these issues, but I'm happy to answer it.

You know, I have been a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning. I didn't have a public position on it because I was part of the administration. But when I started running for the Senate, I have been a critic.

I've said it was flawed. I said that it worked in some parts of our country, and I've seen the results in Texas. I was in Laredo in the last couple of days. It's the largest inland port in America now. So, clearly, some parts of our country have been benefited.

But what I have seen, where I represent upstate New York, I've seen the factories close and move. I've talked to so many people whose children have left because they don't have a good shot.

I've had to negotiate to try to keep factories open -- sometimes successfully, sometimes not -- because the companies got tax benefits to actually move to another country.

So what I have said is that we need to have a plan to fix NAFTA. I would immediately have a trade time-out. And I would take that time to try to fix NAFTA by making it clear that we'll have core labor and environmental standards in the agreement.

We will do everything we can to make it enforceable, which it is not now.