Feb. 26 Democratic debate transcript

Williams: Senator Obama, a quick response.

Sen. Obama: Well, look, I believe in universal health care, as does Senator Clinton. And this is -- this is, I think, the point of the debate, is that Senator Clinton repeatedly claims that I don't stand for universal health care. And, you know, for Senator Clinton to say that I think is simply not accurate.

Every expert has said that anybody who wants health care under my plan will be able to obtain it. President Clinton's own secretary of labor has said that my plan does more to reduce costs and, as a consequence, makes sure that the people who need health care right now all across Ohio, all across Texas, Rhode Island, Vermont, all across America, will be able to obtain it. And we do more to reduce costs than any other plan that's been out there.

Now, I have no objection to Senator Clinton thinking that her approach is superior. But the fact of the matter is, is that if, as we've heard tonight, we still don't know how Senator Clinton intends to enforce a mandate, and if we don't know the level of subsidies that she's going to provide, then you can have a situation which we're seeing right now in the state of Massachusetts, where people are being fined for not having purchased health care but choose to accept the fine because they still can't afford it even with the subsidies.

And they are then worse off. They then have no health care and are paying a fine above and beyond that.

Williams: Thank you.

Sen. Obama: That is a genuine difference between myself and Senator Clinton.
And the last point I would make is, the insurance companies actually are happy to have a mandate. The insurance companies don't mind making sure that everybody has to purchase their product. That's not something they're objecting to.

The question is, are we going to make sure that it is affordable for everybody? And that's my goal when I'm president of the United States.

Sen. Clinton: You know, Brian...

Williams: Senator, as...

Sen. Clinton: Brian, wait a minute. I've got -- this is too important.
You know, Senator Obama has a mandate. He would enforce the mandate by requiring parents to buy insurance for their children.

Sen. Obama: Yes. This is true.

Sen. Clinton: That is the case. If you have a mandate, it has to be enforceable. So there's no difference here. It's just that I know...

Sen. Obama: No, there is a difference.

Sen. Clinton: ... that parents who get sick have terrible consequences for their children. So you can insure the children, and then you've got the breadwinner who can't afford health insurance or doesn't have it for him or herself.

And, in fact, it would be as though Franklin Roosevelt said, let's make Social Security voluntary. That's, you know -- that's -- let's let everybody get in it if they can afford it. Or if President Johnson said, let's make Medicare voluntary.

Sen. Obama: Well, let me...

Sen. Clinton: What we have said is at the point of employment, at the point of contact with various government agencies, we would have people signed up. It's like when you get a 401(k) at your employer, the employer automatically enrolls you.

You would be enrolled. And under my plan, it is affordable because, number one, we have enough money in our plan.
A comparison of the plans like the ones we're proposing found that actually I would cover nearly everybody at a much lower cost than Senator Obama's plan because we would not only provide these health care tax credits, but I would limit the amount of money that anyone ever has to pay for a premium to a low percentage of your income. So it will be affordable.

Now, if you want to say that we shouldn't try to get everyone into health insurance, that's a big difference, because I believe if we don't have universal health care, we will never provide prevention.

I have the most aggressive measures to reduce cost and improve quality. And, time and time again, people who have compared our two approaches have concluded that. So let's have a debate about the facts.