'Meet the Press' transcript for Feb. 17, 2008

MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask about Hillary Clinton's observation back in December, and here it was. "I have a campaign that's poised and ready for the long term. We're competing everywhere through February 5. ... So I'm in it for the long run. It's not a very long run. It'll be" all "over by February 5." That was the plan of the campaign. The financing, the organization...

MS. O'BEIRNE: Absolutely. Sure.

MR. RUSSERT: ...Super Tuesday, and out.

MS. O'BEIRNE: Sure. Everything was in place. We don't even have to much worry about caucus states. You know, nobody's in a position to deny this to us. She looked so different by February 5 than she had as recently as December. I thought in the fall when she looked more formidable, she was running on her own. It looked more like her Senate race in 2000 when Bill Clinton was not much in evidence at all. And I couldn't agree more now that he's back on the scene, it's--I mean, the public's contemplating what now, 28 years of Bushes and Clintons? And to be reminded--the scandals. Already the media is wondering what has be been up to in his post-presidency? It is a, it is a major problem for her. He might draw big crowds, but at an enormous cost. You see how liberal elite opinion has turned on the Clintons now that they no longer have to defend them against Newt Gingrich or Ken Starr, a lot of his long suppressed antipathy is there.

MS. CARLSON: Yeah.

MS. O'BEIRNE: It is a major--based on that quote, this is a major surprise to Hillary Clinton.

MS. CARLSON: I don't think we--I don't we remember gaffs by Senator Clinton other than maybe the driver's license, but there's a litany of them on behalf of Bill Clinton. Those are the ones we remember. That is not the kind of surrogate that's going to help you in the end.

MR. RUSSERT: Joe Klein made this observation, Albert Hunt. Let me see what you think of it. He writes this. "If nothing else, a presidential campaign tests a candidate's ability to think strategically and tactically and to manage a very complex organization. We have three plausible candidates remaining - Obama, Clinton and John McCain - and Obama has proven himself the best executive by far. Both the Clinton and the McCain campaigns have gone broke at crucial moments. So much for fiscal responsibility."

MR. HUNT: Oh, I think that's absolutely dead on, Tim. I mean, there's a wonderful piece by Josh Green in The Atlantic that talks about the total disarray of the Clinton campaign. The biggest enterprise that either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama have ever run in their entire lives are these campaigns. And you--one just looks at the result. Whoever wins, and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion, David Axelrod and company at that Obama campaign have run circles around the Clinton campaign. They weren't prepared for a protracted battle, they weren't, weren't prepared for a money fight, they weren't prepared for caucuses, they weren't prepared for a tough alternative. And what happened, Tim, every smart politician, every smart political strategist comes in with a game plan. But the really good ones are able to adjust. They're able to throw out some stuff, tweak some stuff, the Stu Spencers, the James Carvilles. These people couldn't adjust.

MR. NOVAK: Let me say what's wrong with Joe Klein's proposition. That this is--that this--we pick a president on the basis of the way they run their campaign. We also have something like, like issues. There are no issues in the, in the Clinton vs. Obama campaign. It's just stuff about who's got experience and who's not, who's change and who's not. But when you get into, say, McCain and Obama, then you get into the question of Obama being for high taxes, for big government, for protectionism, for--against the global economy. Then, then you get into, into real issues. There's no issues being discussed in, in, in, in, in Clinton vs. Obama. We haven't discussed any issues. It's, it's all, all this campaign images and imagery, nothing to do with what they really will do as, as to the kind of a, of a, of a, of a, of a regime they would put on the country.

MS. CARLSON: But on the issues, they don't differ that much. So going up against McCain, they aren't going to differ that much on the issue.

MR. NOVAK: But I was responding to the, to the, to the Klein proposition.

MS. CARLSON: Right. But, but on the moment, that's why, you know, she's campaigned on experience, and neither one of them have much experience, and senators never do.

MR. RUSSERT: The, the disarray in the campaign, The Wall Street Journal had this article about Mark Penn, the strategist, saying to Mandy Grunwald, the ad maker, "Your ad doesn't work. The execution's all wrong." Mandy responds, "Oh, it's always the ad, never the message." Guy Cecil, the political director, said, "I'm out of here."

MR. SHIELDS: "I'm out of here."

MR. RUSSERT: There, there seems to be real tension.

MR. SHIELDS: Well, I, I can say as a veteran of four losing presidential campaigns, the backbiting and second-guessing are endemic to losing campaigns. And, and the factions that are always present in any campaign become even more intense and more polarized. I don't, I don't think there's any question. That, that happens in, in every campaign.

MS. O'BEIRNE: I'm happy to say we avoid the backbiting, but we, in our business, do a whole lot of the second-guessing, too. In fairness to the Clinton campaign, had we had our end of season show in December, I think we also would have been viewing her as, as the favored candidate, maybe all but inevitable candidate.

MR. NOVAK: No, I wouldn't. No.

MS. O'BEIRNE: Bob wants this put on the tape.

MR. NOVAK: Don't speak for me. Don't speak for me, because I, I--on Bloomberg, I take a different position.

MR. SHIELDS: No, I mean...

MS. O'BEIRNE: It's so easy.

MR. HUNT: Wait, wait, wait, Kate. Let me just say, the reason I think that Josh Green piece, which I alluded to, to a minute ago is so important because what it--the point it makes is not just there's disarray, not just a campaign in trouble always has backbiting, but the, the decisions that were made of who to put where and why Senator Clinton chose various people.

MR. NOVAK: Yes.

MR. HUNT: Why she picked people for loyalty rather than for competence. And I think that's a far more important question, at least, than, than anecdotes about a losing campaign.

MR. SHIELDS: And we've seen that in this current administration, where loyalty is the transcendent virtue to look for.

Bob made the point to Tim about the differences between John McCain and the issues. But one of the interesting things is that John McCain, there's such agreement. I mean, global warming, John McCain's with the Democrats, and drilling at ANWR, John McCain's with the Democrats. That the government negotiate for better prices on the prescription drugs, John McCain's with the Democrats. On CAFE standards, John McCain's with the Democrats. So I don't know, Bob. I mean, maybe we will find some issue differences.

MR. NOVAK: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you're acting like you're in your old role as a campaign flack instead of a, an honest journalist. Because there are, there are obviously huge differences. Whether you agree with him or not, there's a huge difference on Iraq, that's going to be a major debate. There's going to be huge difference on the, on the policy toward Iran. There's going to be a huge...

MR. RUSSERT: Wait. Mr. Novak, Mr. Novak, I read your Evans and Novak Political Report on Wednesday, and you seemed very pessimistic about the Republican chances. Let me, let me read it, we'll let the viewer decide here. This is what Novak wrote: "Amid the exciting windup of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination and the mop-up of the Republican contest, the reality is that 2008 shapes up as a very bad year for the GOP. The fact that the Democratic turnout in [the] Virginia primary was double the Republican reflects the larger, more boisterous Democratic rallies from Iowa to the Potomac primaries. The pessimism and gloom in the business community is particularly pronounced.

"Adding to the dark mood among Republicans is the increasing prospect" they'll "not be able to bolster their morale by running against the detested" "Hillary Clinton" of New York. "Her unification of Republicans has been one of the few GOP assets going into the campaign." It'll "take time and effort to work up a passion against the likable" "Barack Obama" "no matter how leftist he really is."

MR. NOVAK: Now, those, those are...

Mr. HUNT: (Unintelligible)

MR. NOVAK: I wrote that. I wrote that, as a matter of fact. But...

MS. CARLSON: You had a deadline.

MR. NOVAK: No, no. No, no, no. It was exactly right. But, but I, I am saying there are policy differences. Now, that, that's, that's, that's the reason--there's two reasons why, why if you, if you go further into the newsletter, that there are...

Mr. HUNT: No, please.

MR. RUSSERT: Wait. I took it out of context?

MR. NOVAK: Yes, that's right.

MR. RUSSERT: I read three paragraphs!

MS. O'BEIRNE: Available by subscription, let's remind everybody that.

MR. NOVAK: There are, there are, there are, there are, there are, there are two reasons why this could be a, a competitive contest. One thing is John McCain, as I have said many times, is the only Republican with a chance to win the election this year. And, and the, and the, all the, the conservatives who are fighting him were riding against their own interests.

Second place is I disagreed with Mark, and I think he knows, there will be considerable policy differences. Before you interrupted me, I was going to say the big differences on trade and taxes, which are very, very important for the--for the country.

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