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'Meet the Press' transcript for Feb. 10, 2008
Broadcast videos, highlights |
 Netcast Feb. 10: Former Gov. Mike Huckabee (R-AR) won five southern states on Super Tuesday. He joins Tim Russert to talk about his presidential campaign. Plus a political roundtable on Decision 2008 with David Broder, David Brody, Gwen Ifill & Chuck Todd. |
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 | 60 years of ‘Meet the Press’ A photographic look back at the longest-running program in television history and the guests who graced the broadcast – from Martin Luther King Jr. to Jimmy Hoffa. more photos |
MR. RUSSERT: Let me bring you back to September of '06, a comment you made about John McCain back then. "I have a hard time seeing him being elected president, just because I think, at times, some of his views have alienated very important segments of the Republican Party. I'm not sure he can mend the fences with the evangelical wing of the party." Do you still have a hard time seeing John McCain elected president?
GOV. HUCKABEE: Well, I have an easier time seeing him elected than I do either of the Democrats. But I do think he's got some challenges with not just the evangelicals but, frankly, the economic conservatives because of his opposition to the Bush tax cuts. To many of the conservatives, because of his views on immigration that certainly weren't in the mainstream. They were way out of the mainstream and quite unorthodox. He has been often the voice in the wilderness, and I have great respect. As you know, I think it's interesting that the two most civil campaigns are the two that're still on their feet in the Republican Party. That's a healthy thing. We've not attacked each other. I think we have mutual respect. I like John McCain. I've said publicly, even on debate stages when I was debating him, that I thought he was a man of honor. And I do believe that.
So this isn't about personal hostility, but there are significant differences that we have on the human life amendment, on embryonic stem cell research on human embryos, on the McCain-Feingold campaign finance act--which I think is one of the worst things that ever happened to election law in this country--and on the Bush tax cuts. And so I think that there's room for us to have that conversation.
MR. RUSSERT: On Thursday, you won the endorsement of Dr. James Dobson, the founder of the Focus on the Family.
GOV. HUCKABEE: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: There's a headline saying that. This is a statement that Dr. Dobson issued talking about John McCain. "I am deeply disappointed" with "the Republican Party seems poised to select a nominee who did not support a constitutional amendment to protect the institution of marriage, voted for embryonic stem cell research to kill nascent human beings, opposed tax cuts that ended the marriage penalty, has little regard for freedom of speech, organized the Gang of 14 to preserve filibusters in judicial hearings, and has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene language. I am convinced Senator McCain is not a conservative" "in fact, has gone out of his way to stick his thumb in the eyes of those who are."
Do you agree with Dr. Dobson?
GOV. HUCKABEE: I, I would say that if you compare Senator McCain to Hillary or Obama, he's much a conservative. Frankly, even within the Republican Party. I'm not going to say he's anything but a conservative. I, I've said that publicly before; I'll say it again. I do think that there are issues where he takes sharp contrast with the mainstream of conservative thought, sometimes economically, sometimes on the social issues. And those are real sensitive issues for many of us. The, the life issue is a very sensitive issue for me, Tim. I think that that's, that's a defining issue for me personally, and I think it is for many conservatives. Because we think that if you are wrong on the life question, it reflects a misunderstanding of the nature of our nation and the equality of human beings, that there is intrinsic worth and value in each of us, that that individual power and freedom that our founding fathers so believed in that they put their lives on the line for it, begins to deteriorate at the point when you start saying some lives are worth more than others.
MR. RUSSERT: But Dr. Dobson talking about Senator McCain's temper and use of foul and obscene language. Should Dr. Dobson tone down his rhetoric?
GOV. HUCKABEE: That's Dr. Dobson's decision to make.
MR. RUSSERT: He says he will not vote for John McCain under any circumstances. You would if he was the nominee?
GOV. HUCKABEE: Oh, sure. I'm going to vote for the Republican nominee. I mean, I, I would've said that even when we had 10 people on the stage because, as I looked at the stage, I said, "Any of these guys are better than any of those guys." From my perspective.
MR. RUSSERT: Rush Limbaugh has taken after both you and John McCain. This is what Rush Limbaugh said: "I'm here to tell you, if either of these two guys get the nomination"--either McCain or Huckabee--"it's going to destroy the Republican Party. It's going to change it forever, be the end of it. A lot of people aren't going to vote. You watch."
GOV. HUCKABEE: I really like Rush. I've been a fan for many, many years and love his show. I think he's been a great voice of, of conservativism. He's, he's been one of those guys that has used a lot of humor and sometimes some sharp-tongued zingers to kind of keep the movement thoughtful. You know, I'm disappointed in what he said because I don't think it reflects me and my record. I think he allowed some people to put information in front of him that was not accurate. But the point is, you know, he's got a right to say what he thinks. I will make this observation, Tim. You know, he did everything he could to knock McCain and me out of the process. And, unfortunately for him, we're still the two that're on our feet.
MR. RUSSERT: You were an ordained Baptist minister. In November you appeared on "Believer's Voice of Victory," this program here with Kenneth Copeland.
GOV. HUCKABEE: Mm-hmm.
MR. RUSSERT: Also a televangelist.
GOV. HUCKABEE: Mm-hmm.
MR. RUSSERT: This is how your home state paper described Mr. Copeland's difficulties:
"A televangelist under investigation by the U.S. Senate Finance Committee turned a national ministers' gathering into a fund-raising opportunity for Mike Huckabee, reportedly helping to raise thousands of dollars for the cash-strapped presidential" campaign.
"The fund-raiser was held at Kenneth Copeland Ministries' campus" "Newark, Texas. The Trinity Foundation, a group that monitors televangelists and viewed a live Internet broadcast of the event, said the fund-raiser took in $111,000" "generated pledges nearing $1 million.
"Copeland authorized the fund-raiser after receiving a personal call from Huckabee pleading for help, the Trinity Foundation said."
And this is a tape of Mr. Copeland's characterization of your phone call with them.
GOV. HUCKABEE: OK.
MR. RUSSERT: Let's watch.
(Videotape)
MR. KENNETH COPELAND: He hollered at me on the phone, he said, "Are you kidding me? Why should I stand with them and not stand with you? They only got 11 percent approval rating!"
Offscreen Voice: Amen.
MR. COPELAND: And then, and then he said, then he said, "Kenneth Copeland, I will stand with you." He said, "You're trying to get prosperity to the people, and they're trying to take it away from them." He said, "I will stand with you anytime, anywhere, on any issue." That settled that right there. I said, "Yeah, that's my man. That's my man right there."
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: Is that a fair characterization of the phone call?
GOV. HUCKABEE: I don't know the exact words were used, but, you know, Kenneth Copeland has been a friend of mine for a long time. His wife's from Arkansas. They own property there. He's been somebody that I've known for a long time. And my only experience with him is a positive one and a person of integrity. People who've worked with him have been there for 30 years. They love him. They speak of him in the most glowing of ways, of how he treats them. And that's what I know about him.
And, you know, when other people make accusations, all I can tell you is, people make accusations about me every day. If all my friends abandoned me over it, I wouldn't have any left.
MR. RUSSERT: But, Governor, Senator Charles Grassley is a Republican from Iowa.
GOV. HUCKABEE: Yes, he's a great guy.
MR. RUSSERT: He, he has an investigation.
GOV. HUCKABEE: Right.
MR. RUSSERT: And this is how, a week after that, this was the article in the Fort Worth paper:
"North Texas televangelist Kenneth Copeland remains defiant in refusing to cooperate with a U.S. senator's request for information about his finances, and despite the controversy he continues having a prominent role in helping raise funds for Republican presidential" candidate "contender Mike Huckabee."
When you tell him on the phone you stand with him and not with Congress, are you interfering in a congressional investigation in his finances?
GOV. HUCKABEE: Oh, heavens no. No, no, no. First of all, let's, let's be sure. People are innocent until they're proven guilty. That, that's the way we're supposed to operate.
MR. RUSSERT: But shouldn't he cooperate and turn over the materials that Senator Grassley requested?
GOV. HUCKABEE: As far as I know, he will fulfill his responsibilities. He's taking legal counsel. But you know what? The whole issue with Kenneth Copeland/Chuck Grassley is not an issue that I'm dealing with as a presidential candidate. It's not a part of whether or not I ought to be running for president. And what I'm saying is that I think he's taking his legal counsel, finding out what he's supposed to do and where he's supposed to cooperate, but not in, in any way yielding over the constitutional rights he has under the First Amendment to be not just a person of free speech, but also a person of freedom of religion.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you tell him "I stand with you against Congress," and then he raises money for you...
GOV. HUCKABEE: Behind him.
MR. RUSSERT: ...isn't that interfering in an investigation?
GOV. HUCKABEE: No, it's not interfering with an investigation. I--it'd be interfering if I called up Chuck Grassley and said lay off Kenneth Copeland. I've not done that, nor would, would I do that. Because I think Kenneth Copeland will ultimately have to provide some responsible answer to the questions that have been raised. And, and that's fine. And Senator Grassley, he can request whatever information he needs. He'll have the legal authority to do what he does, or he won't be able to get it done. That's all in the world that, that has to happen.
MR. RUSSERT: But he should provide all the information that's been requested?
GOV. HUCKABEE: If the information is reasonable and it's not violating the, the rights that Kenneth Copeland has. I, I do have a little concern. It's a little chilling when you start thinking about is Congress going to start going after nonprofit organizations? And if so, are they going to do all nonprofits? Are they going to start looking at Moveon.org? Are they going to start looking at some of these organizations, where every dime comes from? If, if we're going to do it, let's open it up and make sure everybody coughs up the information.
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