'Meet the Press' transcript for Feb. 3, 2008

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me turn to Senator Obama...

MR. SHRUM:  Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...the issue there is one of experience.  When I listened to Senator Kennedy speak, he talked about Harry Truman, the former president...

Voice:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...and John Kennedy.  And so we at MEET THE PRESS love going back into history...

Voice:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...and we've been able to find exactly what Harry Truman said about John Kennedy back in July of 1960.  Let's watch this.

(Videotape)

PRES. HARRY S.  TRUMAN:  Senator, you--are you certain that you are quite ready for the country, or the country is ready for you in the role of president in January 1961?  I have no doubt about the political heights to which you are destined to rise, but I'm deeply concerned and troubled about the situation we are up against in the world now and in the immediate future. That is why I hope that someone with the greatest possible maturity and experience would be available at this time.  May I urge you to be patient.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Incredible.  Two days later, this is how John Kennedy responded to Harry Truman.  Let's watch.

(Videotape)

PRES. JOHN F.  KENNEDY:  The world is changing.  The old ways will not do. It is time for new generation of leadership to cope with new problems and new opportunities, for there is a new world to be won, a world of peace and good will, a world of hope and abundance, and I want America to lead the way to that new world.

Today I say to you, with full knowledge of the responsibilities of that high office, that if the people of the nation select me to be their president, I am ready.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Forty-eight years later, maturity, experience, "be patient," "I'm ready."

MR. CARVILLE:  Yeah.

MR. SHRUM:  It's the same debate.

MR. MURPHY:  Yeah.

MR. CARVILLE:  I--but--I--but I'd like to make a point here in comparison. Senator Kennedy had served 14 years in the United States Congress.  Senator Obama's served three.  Senator Kennedy was a decorated combat veteran and had won a Pulitzer Prize at this time.  I mean, he was young and fresh.

MR. SHRUM:  Well, senator--I don't want to...

MR. CARVILLE:  I know, but I'm just saying...

MR. SHRUM:  Senator Clinton has served five years in the Senate.

MR. CARVILLE:  Right.

MR. SHRUM:  Served six years in the Senate.  He--Obama's served four.  I don't think that's the critical question.  In 1960, Kennedy was attacked this way.  People didn't vote for him for president because of his legislative record.  Franklin Roosevelt, when he ran in 1930--and, Tim, if you'd--if MEET THE PRESS had been around, you'd have this on tape in one way or another, at least audiotape--Walter Lippman said he was a man of no substance and no significant accomplishments.  I mean, that was kind of a bad prediction, but the fact is...

MR. CARVILLE:  Governor of New York and secretary of the Navy.

MR. SHRUM:  No, but he--he'd been--but he'd been assistant secretary to the Navy, actually.  He'd been governor of New York for four years.  And Lippman said he hadn't done anything, hadn't stood up for anything.  People watch these debates, they watch these campaigns, they make a judgment.  I actually agree with you.  Hillary Clinton should've been running all along on the economy and on change.  I think making this experience argument has not helped her.  She started out as experienced, inevitable, establishment.  And it's proved to be a double-edged sword.

MR. MURPHY:  The problem is, change isn't really the right word for why Obama's campaign's so powerful.  What he's really talking about is rejection of what people perceive to be the broken status quo of politics.  And Hillary Clinton, not only by chronology, but by style, for most of the campaign, has embodied that to a lot of voters.  And so that's where Obama's power is.  He's a certified outsider.  When I was doing the Arnold race, when we were doing the recall race for Schwarzenegger, the Democrats saw us coming up in the polls, and they dropped the big H-bomb on Arnold, which was the Dianne Feinstein spot, tremendously popular California Democratic senator, who basically said the guy's not ready, in a soft way, to be governor.  We went up in the polls because people liked the idea that Arnold was not ready to be governor.  They were so tired of government in Sacramento.

Obama has some of that same energy going, and that's why these experience, what were your SAT scores, these kinds of attacks...

MR. CARVILLE:  They don't cut it.

MR. MURPHY:  ...they don't cut it.

MR. SHRUM:  How many years vs.  how many years?

MR. RUSSERT:  We're not going to do that at this table because I think we'd have a weak link or two.  But, you know, here--just a small footnote, when Harry Truman came on television to make those comments about Senator Kennedy, the television set in Senator Kennedy's office went down, out of order, and the staff from Kennedy's office ran across the hall to...

MR. SHRUM:  To Richard Nixon's office.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...to Richard Nixon...

MR. SHRUM:  Because he was vice president, and his office was across the hall.

MR. RUSSERT:  And Herb Klein, the press secretary, invited in the Kennedy people to watch Truman trashing Kennedy.  I just love this.

MR. SHRUM:  And he was probably rooting at that point for Truman, Herb Klein, I think.

MR. MURPHY:  Back then, right, yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  I'm going to show you another comment from Barack Obama and then come back and talk about it as well, because this goes to the issue of electability.  Here's Obama on Friday.

(Videotape)

SEN. OBAMA:  I'm confident I will get her votes if I'm the nominee.  It's not clear that she would get the votes I got if she were the nominee.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Talking about the Democratic base, crossover independents, Republicans.  The Washington Post is out today.  Their headline is, "Obama, Clinton even in the national race." Clinton's up by 4 amongst Democrats.  Then they compare McCain and Clinton in a general election, and this is what they come up with.  McCain, 49; Clinton, 46.  Then they compare McCain and Obama, it's Obama, 49; McCain, 46.  James Carville:

MR. CARVILLE:  I think it--I think it's something.  I'm not going to say it's nothing.  I remember John Kerry was like 14, 15 points ahead in the Gallup in poll of March of '04.  If you go to the general election, and I think the economy is going to be the dominant issue here, Senator McCain has said, I think quite honestly, that, that he's not very--he doesn't know very much about the economy, it's not his issue.  If you want the matchup, I think the case for Senator Clinton to make is, is she does.  She is, she is schooled in this.  She's thought about it a good deal.  The public thinks that she's very knowledgeable about this.  Well, that'd be a stronger nominee against Senator McCain or would Obama, who the public has not a lot of, a lot of faith in his expertise in these matters.  How does that match up?  That's a question that's going to have to be resolved.  But he has--he certainly has a lot of energy right now, I'd be the first person to say that.  And we're going to see how this thing gets flushed out on Tuesday.  But I think Democrats are going, going to vote...

MR. SHRUM:  James, I love you, but I want to be fair here.

MR. CARVILLE:  All right, be fair.

MR. SHRUM:  As you've suggested to Hillary.

MR. CARVILLE:  OK.

MR. SHRUM:  I will buy you dinner anywhere you want if Barack Obama has said the economy is not my issue.

MR. CARVILLE:  No, I didn't.  I said--Obama...

MR. SHRUM:  That's what just said.

MR. CARVILLE:  No, I did not say Obama said that, I said McCain said that, Bob.  But I'll buy you dinner if you can show me in a transcript that I said it.

MR. SHRUM:  (Unintelligible)...look, look, what--first of all, Obama shouldn't even be making this argument.  It's a political argument, he ought to skip it.  He ought to be talking about big things.  Secondly, there's a memo that came out from the Clinton campaign from Mark Penn saying that actually she'll do better with independents, so she's a stronger candidate. This follows an earlier memo from Mark that says the primaries that--where independents can vote are unfair to Hillary Clinton because they don't support her.  I mean, a three-point--look, he runs three points stronger, or six points stronger against McCain right now than she does.  That doesn't matter.

MR. MURPHY:  Yeah.

MR. SHRUM:  The truth is, over the months it's going to change in a lot of different ways.

MR. MURPHY:  I think if there's one lesson for the punditocracy this year, it's...

MR. SHRUM:  Yeah.

MR. MURPHY:  ...we're always going to be wrong when we try to decide the future based on what's happening right now.  All we know is it's going to be a close race, and there are a bunch of really strong candidates out there.  I think most Republicans are--take Hillary Clinton very seriously but are a little bit more afraid of Obama simply because she's a little more divisive. And that's about all I know.

MR. RUSSERT:  Before fore we take a break and talk about the Republicans, I do want to talk about the, the Bubba factor, William Jefferson Clinton.  After South Carolina, he seemed to go off and be a bit quieter, James Carville, Mary Matalin.

MR. CARVILLE:  Love that.  I love the guy, man.

MR. RUSSERT:  Been chasing down--after being roundly criticized for stepping over the line.  Except in--on Thursday in Arizona, it seems he couldn't resist going after Ted Kennedy a little bit.  Here is former President Clinton.

(Videotape)

FMR. PRES. BILL CLINTON:  This was a train wreck that was not intended. No--leave no child behind, or No Child Left Behind was supported by George Bush and Senator Ted Kennedy, and everybody in between.  Why?  Because they didn't talk to enough teachers before they did it.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Now, when I heard that, I played it again, I said "And everybody in between.  I wonder who he was talking about?"

MR. MURPHY:  You mean his wife?

MR. RUSSERT:  Well, this is the press release I found.  Here's Hillary Clinton on 2001, leave it to--"`Leave No Child Behind Act' includes several increases in federal resources for New York City schools.  Passing this landmark legislation sends a clear message that all American children deserve a world class education."

James, is he incorrigible?

MR. CARVILLE:  No.  You know what, I just love the man to death.  He loves politics.  He's out their campaigning.  In the stuff of sort of campaign charges and back and forth, this is really pretty mild stuff.  It's kind of fun.  And what makes it fun is, is that it is so mild.  And what's he trying to kind of have it both ways for his wife?  In that a little bit, sure.  And it--I mean, that's hardly a, a...

MR. MURPHY:  We're learning...

MS. MATALIN:  But when she says you--that she can control him.  The only way you can control a husband like that is being right next to him with a leash, OK?  And this is, this is an important thing, because...

MR. RUSSERT:  Wait a minute, are you speaking from experience?

MS. MATALIN:  Well, this is why he's so well-behaved here.

MR. RUSSERT:  Mary, I, I wanted to show you a comment from Senator Clinton, because I need your interpretation of this.  This was Senator Clinton on ABC's "Nightline." Question:  "Newsweek magazine this week says flatly if you're elected, it will be a co-presidency." Senator Clinton:  "Well, that is not the case.  I'm going..." Question:  "Well, maybe it's a good idea." "Well, no, it's not.  It's not.  I learned that.  I learned that the hard way, because it's important for the country to know who they're voting for." What's she referring to?

MS. MATALIN:  She learned it that the two-for-one thing doesn't work.  She's got to hang on to these crossovers.  Obama's right.  It was a smart thing for him to say.  He is going to get the crossovers.  The crossovers do not want Bill, as Mitt Romney said, "roaming around in the White House with nothing to do." And it's evidenced by everything he said that he cannot do nothing.  He's always the man in motion.

MR. MURPHY:  We're learning that it is generally, we've all learned now, kind of a bad idea to give a former president a microphone in an election year, because they have a lot of kind of score settling they want to do; it just seeps out.  And Clinton, the super personality, more than most.

MR. SHRUM:  Look, I think he's--look, I think he's frustrated and angry, probably very frustrated and angry about Senator Kennedy's decision.  I think they talk internally about it, and some of it comes out.  But the truth is, this was a good week.  He only slipped the leash once.  And I think James and the Clinton campaign and everybody else decided that we couldn't have a repetition of what went on in South Carolina.

MR. CARVILLE:  You know, again, I point out this is pretty mild stuff.  OK? It is fun.

MR. SHRUM:  (Unintelligible).

MR. CARVILLE:  This is pretty mild--again, still pretty mild stuff.  And you know what...

MR. RUSSERT:  Was South Carolina and the race stuff mild?

MR. CARVILLE:  I don't--you know what, I--there's--I have defended President Clinton on this set many times.  I would defend him to the end.  He does not--I know him well--he doesn't have a racial bone in his body.  And, and, and neither did Jesse Jackson think that.  Neither did the two congressman who sit with him.  I, I, I know what's in this man's heart.

MR. MURPHY:  I agree, but he has a lot of cynical political bones in his body, and there was that line in South Carolina.

MR. CARVILLE:  I think he was analyzing something, and I think that, that Jesse said that, you know, and a lot of other people came on.  I'll defend him through anything.  He has got a good, pure heart on these matters.

MR. RUSSERT:  All right.  We're going to take a quick break.  Mary Matalin, Mike Murphy.  Talk--come back and talk about your guys, the Republicans.  The GOP up next.  The analysis of Super Tuesday.  Two days to go.  We're digging into it right there on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  Carville, Matalin, Murphy and Shrum--our MEET THE PRESS roundtable.  The Republicans--McCain, Romney, Huckabee--what to watch for after this station break.

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