'Meet the Press' transcript for Jan. 27, 2008

MR. TIM RUSSERT:  Our issues this Sunday:  A big win for Obama in South Carolina.  The next 2008 battleground, Florida, with the Republican primary on Tuesday.  Mitt Romney and John McCain lead in the polls, and Rudy Giuliani makes his last stand in the Sunshine State.  With us, the senior senator from Arizona, Republican presidential candidate John McCain.  Then, the Democratic race turns bitter.

(Videotape)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL):  While I was working on those streets watching those folks see their jobs shipped overseas, you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of Wal-Mart.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY):  I was fighting against those ideas when you were practicing law and representing your contributor Rezko in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Continuing debate over the campaign tactics of former President Bill Clinton.  Insights and analysis from New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd, NBC News political director Chuck Todd and Byron York of the National Review.

But first, a huge victory for Barack Obama in South Carolina last night.  He beat Hillary Clinton 55 percent to 27 percent, a 2-to-1 margin.  We'll talk about the lessons of that victory in our roundtable, but the next primary stop is here in Florida on Tuesday with the Republicans.  And we are joined by one of the leading GOP contenders, Senator John McCain.

Welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ):  Thank you, Tim.  Nice to be back with you again.

MR. RUSSERT:  Thursday night the debate was rather civilized.

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  Over the last few days, however, the fire exchanged by you and Mitt Romney has been rather intense.  This is what you said in a statement yesterday about Governor Romney:  "The fact is Governor Romney has hedged, equivocated," has "ducked and reversed himself." What are you talking about specifically?

SEN. McCAIN:  I'm talking specifically about a number of issues, but in the specific case, in the case of whether we should have maintained the surge in Iraq and whether, at the--April of 2007, when we had a choice between doing the surge when things were at their lowest, when Republicans and the Democrats were saying that we've got to withdraw, we have to have, "timetables." Timetables was the buzzword at that time, and there were--and it was a defining moment.  It was the low point in my political career.  And we--Lindsey Graham, I, the president and others--said this is what needs to be done, no matter what the consequences are.  Governor Romney obviously said there had to be, "timetables," although they had to be secret because we weren't going to tell the enemy when we were leaving.  I mean, that's--that's just a fact.  And if we'd have done that, as the Democrats and some Republicans wanted to do, we would've lost that surge and al-Qaeda would be celebrating a victory over the United States of America.

MR. RUSSERT:  Governor Romney said he never suggested a specific timetable, you're being dishonest and you should apologize.

SEN. McCAIN:  I see.  Well, you know, you flash these up on the screen all the time.  Let me just--let me just see, he said--when he was asked should a timetable--should there be a timetable for withdrawing the troops?  "Well, there's no question the president and Prime Minister al-Maliki have to have a series of timetables and milestones that they speak about, but they shouldn't be for public pronouncement.  You don't want the enemy to understand how long they have to wait in the weeds until you're going to be gone." That's, that's, my friend, is the quote.  That was a clear indication of setting timetables that would--you know, but you don't want to tell the enemy when you're going to be gone.  It's very clear.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator Clinton, when she suggested timetables, you said was waving the white flag of surrender.  Is Governor Romney waving the white flag?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, actually, Tim, what Senator Clinton said was that you would set a timetable within 60 days of withdrawal, complete withdrawal from Iraq.  To me that's surrender.  And I think in most people's view that would be surrender if we told al-Qaeda that we are leaving Iraq within a certain period of time.

MR. RUSSERT:  Is Governor Romney suggesting surrender?

SEN. McCAIN:  I said that he has said--is wrong, and I think he has equivocated on it.  In one of the debates, he said the serve-- surge is "apparently working." It was working.  It wasn't apparently.  Look, these were tough time in American history, and I think historians will look back at April of 2000 when Harry Reid, the majority leader of the United States Senate, declared the war lost; when Republicans, even, were saying that we had to have "timetables" because we needed to get out of there.  That was a critical time. I'm proud of the role that I played at that time.  And I don't believe that Governor Romney's statement indicated anything but that we were going to tell--we were going to have a timetable for withdrawal.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me ask about Iraq, and the question I posed at the debate. This was the survey of attitudes of Americans.  Was removing Saddam worth the price in U.S.  casualties and the cost of the war?  Worth it, 32; not worth it, 59 percent.  That's the highest level of people who've said that the war is just not worth it.  You're going to go into November election...

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...if you're the nominee, saying the war was a good idea, it was worth the price, and we're going to stay forever or 100 years, you even suggested.

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  Is that a winning formula in a presidential election?

SEN. McCAIN:  Tim, let, let me just point out that I understand the frustration and the sorrow of the American people over the sacrifice that has been made.  It was badly mishandled for nearly four years.  On this program I severely criticized the so-called Rumsfeld strategy.  Republicans criticized me at that time.  And I advocated the new strategy under General Petraeus. And I think if we can show Americans success and continued success that they will support it.  And, and there's no doubt--there's no doubt that this war has been mishandled.

And some people talk about the impatience of the American people.  I'm proud, frankly, of the patience.  But on the issue of how long we stay there, I think that's a false argument.  The point is is how many Americans are going to be harmed there?  We've got--right next door in Kuwait, we have military bases. We have bases in South Korea and Japan and Germany and Bosnia.  We have troops there.  It's not a matter of American troop presence, it's a matter of American casualties.  And I believe that by next November, I can show the American people significant more progress, significant withdrawals as dictated by the conditions on the ground and General Petraeus' opinion because--and I also have to explain to them, and maybe do a better job, of the consequences of failure, the consequences of setting a timetable, so al-Qaeda would then be able to tell the world that they defeated the United States of America.  I agree with General Petraeus when he says that Iraq is the central battleground in the struggle against radical Islamic extremism.  We have to succeed there. It's long, hard and tough.  And thanks for letting me give a long answer.  I apologize for that.

MR. RUSSERT:  Looking back, do you think the war was a war of choice or a war of necessity?

SEN. McCAIN:  I think that it was a--that's an excellent question because I think if we had succeeded and done the right--implemented the right strategy, we would all be glad that Saddam Hussein, who had used weapons of mass destruction in the past and was seeking to acquire them, as we know then.  But the mishandling of the war was really what has skewed everybody's opinion, and I understand that.  I mean, it just--I used to call it whack-a-mole when we didn't have enough troops there and they'd pop up in one place and then another.  I believe the world is a better place with Saddam Hussein gone.  I think that we're going to pay a heavy price in the future when we face other threats because of the failures we experienced in Iraq, and I think we're going to be in a very dangerous world for a long time.

MR. RUSSERT:  But absent weapons of mass destruction...

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...how can it be described as a war of necessity?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, he was--he had acquired those weapons in the past.  It's clear that he was trying to acquire them.  The sanctions were breaking down. There was a huge multibillion dollar Oil for Food scandal in the U.N., as you know.  He has practiced the worst kinds of brutality, as you can imagine.  I think the world and Iraq will be better off if we're able to succeed.  If we fail, obviously then--well, then we have enormous other challenges there and in the region, in my view, because I think you're going to have genocide and chaos, and, unfortunately, I'm afraid we'll be back in the region.

MORE FROM MEET THE PRESS

Meet the Press Section Front

June 28: Axelrod, Romney, Graham, roundtable June 21: Netanyahu, Nunn, Thompson, Easton, Todd June 14: Biden, Murphy, Scarborough May 31: Leahy, Sessions, Owens, Schmidt, Mulcahy, roundtable May 24: Durbin, Gingrich, political roundtable May 17: Kaine, Steele, Haass, Noonan, Brownstein May 10: Karzai, Zardari, Coll, Mitchell May 3: Sebelius, Napolitano, Besser, Specter, Scarborough, Gillespie April 26: Gibbs, King Abdullah, Goodwin, Meacham April 19: Summers, roundtable Meet the Press Section Front   Add Meet the Press headlines to your news reader: