Jan. 15 Democratic debate transcript

Russert: Senator Edwards, you say you're against nuclear power.
But a reality check: I talked to the folks at the MIT Energy Initiative, and they put it this way, that in 2050, the world's population is going to go from six billion to nine billion, that CO2 is going to double, that you could build a nuclear power plant one per week and it wouldn't meet the world's needs.

Something must be done, and it cannot be done just with wind or solar.

Former Sen. Edwards:  Well, yes, there are a lot of things that need to be done.
If you were to double the number of nuclear power plants on the planet tomorrow -- if that were possible -- it would deal with about one-seventh of the greenhouse gas problem. This is not the answer.

It goes beyond wind and solar. We ought to be investing in cellulose-based biofuels. There are a whole range of things that we ought to be investing in and focusing on.

I want to come back to something Senator Clinton said a minute ago. I agree with her and Senator Obama that it's very important to break this iron grip that the gas and oil industry has on our energy policy in this country.

But I believe, Senator Clinton, you've raised more money from those people than any candidate, Democrat or Republican. I think we have to be able to take those people on if we're going to actually change our policy.

Now, what we need in my judgment is we need a cap on carbon emissions. That cap needs to come down every year. We need an 80 percent reduction in our carbon emissions by the year 2050. Below the cap, we ought to make the polluters pay.

That money ought to be invested in all these clean renewable sources of energy: wind, solar, cellulose-based biofuels. As I said earlier, I'm opposed to building more nuclear power plants.

But I'd go another step that at least I haven't heard these two candidates talk about. They can answer for themselves. I believe we need a moratorium on the building of any more coal-fired power plants unless and until we have the ability to capture and sequester the carbon in the ground.

Because every time we build a new coal-fired power plant in America when we don't have that technology attached to it, what happens is, we're making a terrible situation worse. We're already the worst polluter on the planet. America needs to be leading by example.

Williams: Rebuttal time to both senators, 30 seconds, please. Senator Clinton.

Sen. Clinton:  Well, I have a comprehensive energy plan that I have put forth. It does not rely on nuclear power for all of the reasons that we've discussed. I have said we should not be sitting any more coal-powered plants unless they can have the most modern, clean technology. And I want big demonstration projects to figure out how we would capture and sequester carbon.

But you know, this is going to take a massive effort. This should be our Apollo moon shot.
This is where a president needs to come in and say, "We can do this, America. You know, we can make this change." We've got to do it by having a partnership with what needs to happen in Washington, but there's work for everybody to do -- the states, communities and individuals.

That's what I want to summon the country to achieve, and I think we can make it.

Williams: Senator Obama?

Sen. Obama:  Well, I think that one thing that we haven't talked as much about that we need to is reducing the consumption of energy. We are inefficient, and oftentimes during the presidential campaign, people have asked, what do we expect out of the American people in bringing about real change.

This is an example of where ordinary citizens have to make a change. We are going to have to make our buildings more efficient. We're going to have to make our lighting more efficient. We're going to have to make our appliances more efficient. That is actually the low-hanging fruit if we're going to deal with climate change. That's the thing that we can do most rapidly.

And there's no reason why, with the kind of presidential leadership that I intend to provide, that we can't make drastic cuts in the amount of energy that we consume without any drop in our standard of living.