‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Jan. 6, 2008

MR. RUSSERT:  This is what John McCain said to the Tucson Citizen, home state paper, back in 2003.  “I think we can set up a program where amnesty is extended to a certain number of people who are eligible.”

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  “And at the same time make sure that we have some control over people who come in and out of” the “country.  Amnesty has to be an important part because there are people who have lived in this country for 20, 30 or 40 years, who have raised children here,” paid “taxes here and are not citizens. That has to be a component of it.”

SEN. McCAIN:  Look, I have said time after time that no one can be reward for—rewarded for illegal behavior.  The context of that conversation, don’t you call that “amnesty.” Look, I have said and, and hundreds of hours of debate on the Senate floor, we reward no one for illegal behavior.  They have to pay fines.  They have to take the naturalization.  They have to—we have to put them into certain categories.  I have said, as Chertoff, the secretary of homeland security, has said that we have a lot, about two million people here in this country who have come illegally, have committed crimes here in America, and they have to be deported immediately.  Then...

MR. RUSSERT:  How would you do that?

SEN. McCAIN:  You, you round them up and you find them.  And you also...

MR. RUSSERT:  Two million people, though?

SEN. McCAIN:  It—look, with...

MR. RUSSERT:  Logistically, how do you do that?

SEN. McCAIN:  We cannot—it’s very hard, but what’s the choice?  Having people who are breaking our laws in our country illegally?  But the other aspect of it is that people come forward, and we—and those that don’t come forward, then obviously it’s easier to identify them, and then we address their, their situation according to how long they’ve been here, what their record is, but they cannot be rewarded for illegal behavior.  In other words, they can’t be put in front of anybody else.

But the fundamental point here is we have to secure the borders first.  That’s what we know, that the American people, because of their lack of trust and confidence which you and I just talked about, they want the borders secured. As president, I will secure the borders.  I will have the border states’ governors certify that those borders are secure.  Then we will have a temporary worker program that has to do with tamper-proof biometric documents, electronic verification systems and others.  But I will not and cannot support something that rewards illegal behavior.  So there is no amnesty involved in it.

MR. RUSSERT:  Fourteen million illegal immigrants here, let’s say two million have committed crimes.

SEN. McCAIN:  Yeah.  Yeah, sure.

MR. RUSSERT:  You’ll take steps to make move them out.  The remaining 12 million...

SEN. McCAIN:  Sure.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...they have children born here, they pay Social Security taxes.

SEN. McCAIN:  Sure they do.  Yes.

MR. RUSSERT:  They will stay?

SEN. McCAIN:  I have said in debate after debate, it’s not that they will stay, it depends on their category.  If someone is 80 years old and been here 70 years and they have a son or grandson fighting in Iraq, I’m not interested in calling him up and telling him I’m deporting his grandmother, OK?  As I’ve said time after time, we have to address this in a humane and compassionate fashion.  But our first priority is our nation’s security. That’s why we have to secure our borders first, so that there’s not another inflow of people illegally after we address this group of people who are here illegally.

MR. RUSSERT:  That’s a given, secure the borders.

SEN. McCAIN:  Sure, sure.

MR. RUSSERT:  That’s a given.

SEN. McCAIN:  Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  But those 12 million who did not...

SEN. McCAIN:  Some may have to, some may have to be deported immediately. Some may...

MR. RUSSERT:  If they have children here that are American citizens?

SEN. McCAIN:  Some—not—look, each one has to be treated in a humane and compassionate fashion, and I can’t tell you each individual case.  But there’s some that may have to go back to the country that they came from for a while and be checked out before they come back here.  That’s all got to do with a resolution of this huge issue once we have secured the borders.

MR. RUSSERT:  Mike Huckabee said, “If we deported 12 million illegal immigrants...”

SEN. McCAIN:  Yeah.  Sure.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...”it would destroy our economy.”

SEN. McCAIN:  I think it would have significant economic impacts.  I think it’s obvious that our economy, to a large degree, has grown dependent upon illegal workers.  And that’s why I’m for a temporary worker program that’s truly temporary that has a tamper-proof biometric document so we can fill those jobs that, that Americans won’t fill.

MR. RUSSERT:  And if an employer in the future...

SEN. McCAIN:  But first we got to secure the borders.

MR. RUSSERT:  In the future, if an employer hired an illegal immigrant, you would hold that employer accountable?

SEN. McCAIN:  Absolutely.  Because they would have a way to hire someone who, under a tamper-proof biometric document, coupled with an electronic employment verification system, and then the employer would not have any excuse for not using that system rather than today, where someone shows up with a beautifully counterfeited Social Security card or birth certificate.  So—but look, we can do this sitting down, Republican and Democrat together, recognizing we have a national security issue here.  We’ve got to secure the borders and then address the other aspects of the issue.  And there’s no reason why we can’t do that.  Because the status quo of 11 or 12 million people here illegally, two million of them having committed crimes, not a valid temporary worker program, is an unacceptable situation.

MR. RUSSERT:  That was a Mitt Romney ad I was referring to.

SEN. McCAIN:  Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  It seemed in last night’s debate, all the other candidates were pouncing on Mitt Romney.  Why?

SEN. McCAIN:  Hm, I don’t, I don’t know.  I think he’s—I think Governor Romney’s a good man, and I think that...

MR. RUSSERT:  Now, Senator, you don’t like him much.

SEN. McCAIN:  Oh, Tim, I—first of all, I don’t know him well.  But what I know I like him.  He’s, he’s a very good family man, he’s...

MR. RUSSERT:  What kind of campaign do you think he’s run...

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, I...

MR. RUSSERT:  ...against you?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, obviously the negative attack ads, no candidate enjoys those.  But I think it’s pretty clear that the people of New Hampshire reject that kind of campaigning.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you think he...

SEN. McCAIN:  But I, but I think he’s a, a good man, a good family...

MR. RUSSERT:  Has he been consistent in his views?

SEN. McCAIN:  He has changed his positions on almost every major issue.  That is a fact.  I could chronicle it for you.  But that doesn’t mean he isn’t a good person.  I—look, we’re in a political campaign here, and, and we have—I want to debate this, this campaign on the issues, not on personalities.  And that’s the important thing.  And I think when I say that to the people at town hall meetings, they say, “Good, let’s hear the issues.  Let’s not hear whether there’s any personal animosity or not between the candidates.” They don’t care about that.  That’s not what determines their futures.

MR. RUSSERT:  If he was the nominee, you’d support him?

SEN. McCAIN:  Of course I will support the nominee of my party.  And...

MR. RUSSERT:  You’d never run as an independent?

SEN. McCAIN:  Oh, no.  I, I had that opportunity a couple of times in the past.

MR. RUSSERT:  That’s why I’m asking.

SEN. McCAIN:  No, no.  No, certainly not.

MR. RUSSERT:  Osama bin Laden.  This is what John McCain...

SEN. McCAIN:  Hm.  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...has said about him.  Let’s listen.

(Videotape)

SEN. McCAIN:  I’ll get Osama bin Laden.  I’ll get him even if I have to follow him to the gates of hell.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  “I’ll get him.”

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  George Bush has tried...

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...for seven years.

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  What will you do differently than George Bush?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, first of all, I will dramatically—I wouldn’t have passed up some of the opportunities we passed up, such at, as at Tora Bora, and President Clinton passed up.  But most importantly, I’ll improve our human intelligence.

MR. RUSSERT:  How?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, you’re going to recruit, you’re going to train, and you’re going to send people in who can blend into the culture, into the, to the, the tribal communities and in—very tough.  Not easy.  I didn’t say it was going to be easy.  I said it was going to be tough.  But I will get him. And why is it so important?  One, he killed 3,000 Americans.  But two, in the last two weeks he’s gotten out two messages.  He is recruiting, motivating and instructing radical Islamic extremists who want to kill and destroy everything we stand for and believe in.  This guy is a continuing threat because of his very adroit—as well as other extremists—use of cyberspace.

MR. RUSSERT:  If, if your...

SEN. McCAIN:  So he’s a continuing threat to America.  He isn’t just a guy who’s holed up someplace.

MR. RUSSERT:  If your advisers said to you, “Mr. President, this is where Osama bin Laden is.”

SEN. McCAIN:  Yeah.  Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  “We can get him tonight.”

SEN. McCAIN:  Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  “But understand, if we go in, we could very well destabilize Pakistan, perhaps bring about the overthrow of President Musharraf.”

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  Would you trade Osama bin Laden for Musharraf as president?

SEN. McCAIN:  I would, I would never have that situation arise, because Musharraf and I have an, a relationship that goes back a number of years.  I would be in constant communication with him, and I’m sure that maybe publicly or privately he would be working very closely.  That’s the benefit...

MR. RUSSERT:  Could he, could he be trusted?

SEN. McCAIN:  Sure he could be trusted.

MR. RUSSERT:  You don’t think he’s surrounded by Taliban sympathizers?

SEN. McCAIN:  I, I, I think there’s a real problem, part of it bred by us back when we cut off all relations with their military.  I think there’s a problem, and there’s a problem in their intelligence service.  But Musharraf himself, I think he’s a good man.  But I think he’s made mistakes, don’t get me wrong.  And we’ve got to have—move forward with these elections and have them free and fair.  But I can work with him.  He understands the threat to his country that the Taliban and al-Qaeda present.  I mean—and radical Islamic extremists.  He’s a very smart man.  He’d be one of the first to go. They’ve tried to kill him nine times, OK?  Nine times they’ve tried to kill Musharraf.  He’s not their favorite guy.  So I would be able to work with him, and, and, and I—as I have in the past.  So I don’t, I don’t see that scenario arising.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me ask about Iraq.  You were at a town hall meeting here in Derry, New Hampshire...

SEN. McCAIN:  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...and here’s what you...

SEN. McCAIN:  I’m glad you’ve been paying attention to these town hall meetings.

MR. RUSSERT:  I follow you closely, Senator, believe me.

SEN. McCAIN:  God bless you.

MR. RUSSERT:  Here’s the question and answer.

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