‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Dec. 30, 2007

MR. RUSSERT:  You called Hillary Clinton the master of a broken system.  What does that mean?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well...

MR. RUSSERT:  She's the master?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, the--you can't argue that you have mastered Washington and that's why you are the best agent to bring about change.  I mean, the, the fact is that I have consistently talked about taking America in a new direction, and I've also lived it on issues like campaign finance and lobbying reform.  I passed the toughest ethics reform legislation since Watergate, preventing lobbyists from buying gifts and providing meals.  And...

MR. RUSSERT:  But you also said the last time I was out here, at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner...

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  ..."I will not allow a lobbyist to work in my White House"...

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...and now you've changed on that.

SEN. OBAMA:  No, I...

MR. RUSSERT:  You said they can work.

SEN. OBAMA:  I haven't changed.  Look, the terminology may have changed, the, the basic concept remains the same.  I am going to break the revolving door that has become so commonplace in this administration and in some previous administrations.  If you want to work in my White House, you will not be able to regulate former employers.  And if you leave my White House, you will not be able to lobby agencies that you used to work for on behalf of folks that were regulated.  That is the revolving door that has to be broken to give the American people confidence in, in their government.

MR. RUSSERT:  So if a lobbyist agreed to those terms, they could work in the White House?

SEN. OBAMA:  Look, there are people who may have lobbied 10 years ago, 15 years ago.  They may be able to render excellent service to the American people as long as they're clear that we want people of integrity and we want this link between you cashing in and you serving in government broken.

MR. RUSSERT:  Hillary Clinton gave an interview to the Iowa press where she talked about her own experience and what she had gone through, and her words were interesting.  I want to play those and come back and talk about them. Here she is.

(Videotape)

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY):  (December 14, 2007) I've been tested, I've been vetted, I have been in the, you know, political arena in our country very intensely for 16 years.  There are no, there are no surprises.  There are not going to be, you know, anybody saying, "Well, why didn't we think about" or what--"My goodness, what does that mean?"

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  "I've been tested, I've been vetted.  There's no surprises."

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  We've had a Clinton official in New Hampshire resign because he began to talk about your drug use as a, a young man.  A Clinton official resigned here who talked about--on the Internet about your Muslim background.

SEN. OBAMA:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  Have you been sufficiently tested and vetted?  (Obama nods head) Are there any surprises?  (Obama shakes head) Is there anything the American people should know?

SEN. OBAMA:  There are no surprises, in part because the Clinton, the Clinton campaign has done a, I think, a thorough research job on us.  If there was anything out there, I promise you, they would have found it by now, which is why they ended up resorting to some of the stuff that you're talking about. The only reason people know it is because I disclosed it.  And some of it was completely false.

Now, look, I have been written about, I have been scrubbed, I have been vetted over the last year.  I'm sure if you talk to my wife she could point out a few more flaws in my character, but the fact of the matter is that the people of Iowa and I think the people of America at this point know what I stand for. I'm in public service because I believe in the American people.  I think that I--that if government is working well, we can knock down barriers to their American dream.  The proposals and policies that I've put forward are ones that I've been putting forward for the last 20 years, and there's a consistency there, whether it's in terms of how we deal with the war in Iraq, how we deal with healthcare, how we deal with making sure that every child in America has the kind of education they deserve.  When people look back on the track record--and, in fact, I think David Brooks in The New York Times wrote about it--they, they find that I have been consistent in my values and my ideals and the choices I've made in my life to be an organizer or a civil rights lawyer or to be a public servant.  People, I think, can have confidence that I am who I say I am.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you think these stories have successfully created an unease, an uncertainty, a doubt about you?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, I think there's no doubt that in the closing days of the campaign, you know, we've seen independent expenditures, groups that are providing outside assistance, running some negative ads against us, that may have some effect.  But ultimately, I'm putting my faith in the people of Iowa and the people of America that they want something better.

And, Tim, I think the fact that I'm here in a position to win against people who've been campaigning in--for longer times and have much more sturdy organizations is a testimony to how badly people want something new, they want something different, and if they've got the courage to bring about those changes, in five days I think we can trigger a whole new kind of politics in this country and we'll chart a new course that will be better for the American people.

MR. RUSSERT:  In terms of candor, you're running a political ad in Iowa and elsewhere about healthcare.  And this is what the ad says.  Here's the Obama ad.  Let's watch.

(Videotape)

SEN. OBAMA:  I've got a plan to cut costs and cover everyone.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  "Cover everyone." Every analysis of your healthcare plan says there are 15 million Americans who would not be automatically covered because you don't call for a mandate.

SEN. OBAMA:  But, but, Tim...

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me just give you a chance to respond.  Ron Brownstein, who's objective on this, wrote this for the National Journal, and then we'll come back and talk about it.  He says this:  "Obama faces his own contortions. He commendably calls for building a broad healthcare consensus that includes the insurance industry.  But in the states, the individual mandate has been critical in persuading insurers to accept reform, including the requirement" "they no longer reject applicants with pre-existing health problems.  If such a requirement isn't tied to a mandate, insurers correctly note, the uninsured can wait until they are sick to buy coverage, which" would "inflate costs for everyone else.  By seeking guaranteed access without an individual mandate, Obama is virtually ensuring war with the insurance companies that he's pledged to engage."

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, Tim, here's the philosophical debate that's going on. First of all, every objective observer says Edwards, Clinton, myself, we basically have the same plan.  We do have a philosophical difference.  They both believe the problem is the government is not forcing adults to get healthcare.  My belief is that the real problem is people can't afford healthcare, and that if we could make it affordable, they will purchase it. Now, they assert that there're going to be all these people left out who are avoiding buying healthcare.  My attitude is, we are going to make sure that we reduce costs for families who don't have health care, but also people who do have healthcare and are desperately needing some price relief.  And we are going to reduce costs by about $2500 per family.

If it turns out that there are still people left over who are not purchasing healthcare, one way of avoiding them waiting till they get sick is to charge a penalty if they try to sign up later so that they have an incentive to sign up immediately.

MR. RUSSERT:  Which is a quasi-mandate.

SEN. OBAMA:  But--well, no, it's not a quasi-mandate because what happens then is we are not going around trying to fine people who can't afford healthcare, and that's what's happening in Massachusetts right now.  They've already had to exempt 20 percent of the uninsured, and you're reading stories about people who didn't have healthcare, still can't afford the premiums on the subsidized healthcare, but now are also paying a fine.  That I don't think is providing a relief to the American people.  We need to make health care affordable.  That's what my plan does.  And The Washington Post itself said, for the Clinton campaign to try to find an individual who wanted healthcare and could not get it under the Obama administration would be very difficult because that person probably does not exist.  If you want healthcare under my plan, you will be able to get it, it will be affordable, and it will be of the high quality.

MR. RUSSERT:  Before you go, you related a conversation that you had with your wife, Michelle, that if you didn't run--win this time for president, you wouldn't run again.

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, no, what my wife said is, "We're not doing this again." And...

MR. RUSSERT:  Is she right?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, the point she was making, I think, was an interesting one, which is, she said, one of the things that we bring to this race is we're not that far away from normal.  You know, it wasn't that long ago that we were living in a small condo and it was getting too small for our kids, that we were trying to figure out how to save money for our children's college education and paying off student loans.  That, I think, gives us some insight into what ordinary Americans are going through right now.  Eight years from now, she isn't so sure that we won't be in a different orbit, and we won't have that same feeling for what people are going through.

MR. RUSSERT:  But if you don't win this time, would you run again?

SEN. OBAMA:  Oh, Tim, we haven't even cast the--we haven't even had the first caucus in Iowa.

MR. RUSSERT:  Keeping that door open, huh?

SEN. OBAMA:  I, I intend to win this time, that's why I'm running.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator Obama, thanks very much for joining us and sharing your views.

SEN. OBAMA:  Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT:  And we'll be right back.

                               (Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  Continuing coverage from Iowa all week on MSNBC, the "Today" show and "NBC Nightly News." We'll be back live next week from New Hampshire, two days before the New Hampshire primary.  New Year's Day, watch those Buffalo Sabres, world's largest outdoor hockey game, on here on NBC.

If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.  Happy new year, everyone, and thanks to our friends here at WHO in Iowa.

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