‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Dec. 30, 2007

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me turn to foreign policy, specifically Pakistan.  Do you believe that the government of Pakistan should postpone the elections in light of the assassination of Benazir Bhutto?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  I think that's their decision to make.  Clearly, January 8th coming so soon and--after the assassination, it may be problematic for President Musharraf to, to carry out the elections.  Sharif has said that he's going to boycott the elections, so there is some question how much meaning and significance they will have.  But I don't think it would be appropriate for me to try to weigh in on whether or not they ought to have the elections in their own country.

MR. RUSSERT:  Now, the Council on Foreign Relations published an article that you had written.

GOV. HUCKABEE:  Mm.

MR. RUSSERT:  And this is what you advocated for Pakistan:  "Rather than wait for the next strike, I prefer to cut to the chase by going after al-Qaeda's safe havens in Pakistan.  The threat of an attack on us is far graver than the risk" than "a quick and limited strike against al-Qaeda would bring extremists to power in Pakistan." How soon in your presidency would you launch such a strike?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  Well, it would depend on how soon we had fixed a target. Back in 2005, Tim, we had soldiers in a C-130, parachutes strapped on their backs, ready to go in and take out Osama bin Laden.  They believed that they had found him.  And the strike was called back at the last minute, apparently fearing that if they didn't have the permission of the Pakistani government it would create huge problems.  I think leaving key al-Qaeda leaders is the most important problem we face today.  Taking those targets out is critical.

One of the things I want to point out about that article, I spoke about Pakistan extensively back in September, and a lot of people criticized the article, saying `You talk so much about Pakistan, and you didn't speak as much about Iran.' You know, a lot of people have criticized my foreign policy views, but the fact is, in light of what's happened in the last week, some of my comments on Pakistan seem almost prophetic.

MR. RUSSERT:  But if, in fact, you went into Pakistan in order to take out al-Qaeda, couldn't you very well destabilize the Musharraf regime and help the Taliban take over Pakistan?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  Oh, I, I don't think it would be an effort to destabilize the Musharraf government.  I think what we do have to recognize is we've spent over $10 billion in aid, and the purpose of that aid in Pakistan was to fight terrorism.  Now, as we kind of look at where that money's spent, we realize that not that much of it has likely gone to fight terrorism in Pakistan.  A lot of it has gone to their military for reasons that didn't have to do with, with terrorism.  One of the things that will happen, I believe, as a result of the week's activities is a greater accountability for the money.  It is in our best interest for there to be some stability.  Right now Musharraf, despite some of the concerns we have about him, represents at least some level of security, more so than if he were ousted immediately.  And I don't think it's in the United States' best interest to try to get rid of him.  I think Kayani now being in charge of the military is a good thing because, clearly, he's stable, he has a sterling reputation both as a military commander and as a person who is not so political, but I think will give an even hand to the military, which is something Pakistan has needed.

MR. RUSSERT:  But, Governor, you know how the man and woman on the street in Pakistan would react to a U.S. intervention into their country.  Is it worth destabilizing General Musharraf in order to capture Osama bin Laden?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  Well, I think the question is, would it destabilize him if we simply went in...

MR. RUSSERT:  Is it worth the risk?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  If it saves American lives, if it potentially takes out al-Qaeda's number one operative, that's a decision that a president would have to make.  And if I were sitting there as president, I would weigh all that information.  But let me make sure that everybody understands the number one job for the American president is to protect this country, to do every and anything that it can do to make sure that we don't see skyscrapers tumble to the ground in major cities like we did on September 11th.  Whatever we must do to protect our sovereignty against those whose ideologies are so extreme that they would do something so cowardly and so dastardly as to take thousands of innocent lives in that kind of terrorist action, yes sir, you better believe that I'll do anything necessary.  I don't want to do it with disregard to what it might do in stabilization of a nation.  But sometimes you have to look at all the risk and weigh heavily, but remember that your most single critical job is that of protecting and preserving the American people.

RUSSERT:  After the assassination, you made several comments about Pakistan, used some inartful words, you got your geography wrong.  The Washington Post wrote this editorial.  "The assassination of Benzair Bhutto presented U.S. presidential candidates with a test:  Could they respond cogently and clearly to a sudden foreign policy crisis?  Republican Mike Huckabee, flunked abysmally.

"His first statement seemed really uninformed:  He appeared not to know that Mr.  Musharraf had ended `martial law' two weeks ago.  That was better than his next effort, when he said an appropriate U.S. response would include `very clear monitoring of our borders to make sure if there's any unusual activity of Pakistanis coming into our country.' The cynicism of this attempt to connect Pakistan's crisis with anti-immigrant sentiment was compounded by its astonishing senselessness."

Clearly, some of your words were in...

GOV. HUCKABEE:  What do they really think, Tim?  What did they really think in the editorial?

MR. RUSSERT:  Pretty specific.  But let me ask you about it...

GOV. HUCKABEE:  Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...because people your...

GOV. HUCKABEE:  I do want to respond to the specifics of that.

MR. RUSSERT:  In this context.  You were governor of Arkansas, you have no real foreign policy experience.  Give us a sense of, of Pakistan.  How would you describe that country to me?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  It's 164 million people, 97 percent of them are Muslim.  It's a country that does not have a long history of democracy.  It's been a relatively unstable country, alternating between military coup.  But, but let me go back to some of these issues.

MR. RUSSERT:  Primarily Shiite or Sunni?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  It, it--it's primarily Sunni, and I think we need to recognize that what we have in, in the events that have been described in that editorial, first of all, when they say that about the border, that was taken completely out of, out of context.  What I was speaking was how does this event in Pakistan affect people in Iowa?  And my point was that a lot of people say, "Well, this is a terrible tragedy to have this terrible act against an outstanding and, and very charismatic leader." But it does affect us.  Everything in the world affects us here in the United States.  And what I was trying to point out was that our lack of control of our borders--and I quoted the Denver Post article that had 660 Pakistanis arrested, we don't know how many came, that's how many we were, we were catching.  I said it was in a one-year period, it was in a four-year period.

MR. RUSSERT:  And there were several more other countries that had much larger numbers, according to our State Department.

GOV. HUCKABEE:  But my point wasn't lost.  My point is that if you don't control your borders, then it's not about people coming across from Mexico to pluck chickens and pick lettuce.  We're talking about the potential of a person who can come across this border with a dirty bomb in his suitcase, somebody who can come across our borders who might be bringing a shoulder-fired missile.  And if we don't have better control of our borders, it does affect the people in Iowa and the rest of America.

MR. RUSSERT:  I want to get to immigration in a second.  But I want to go back to--stay on foreign policy for a second.  And, again, your article in Foreign Affairs journal, you wrote this:  "American foreign policy needs to change its tone and attitude, open up, and reach out.  The Bush administration's arrogant bunker mentality has been counterproductive at home and abroad." Give me an example of President Bush's arrogant bunker mentality.

GOV. HUCKABEE:  When Donald Rumsfeld, despite all the military advice that said we needed 400,000 boots on the ground to be effective in bringing stability and order, arbitrarily said we're going to have 180,000 people there.  I think Secretary Gates has done a much better job in, in listening to members of Congress and listening to...

MR. RUSSERT:  But that was the president.

GOV. HUCKABEE:  ...the chief of staff.

MR. RUSSERT:  That's not the secretary of defense, that's the president.

GOV. HUCKABEE:  But it's--but I'm--well, you asked me for a specific, and I'm giving you one.  Our administration, led by Secretary Rumsfeld, was very specific in prescribing that we were going to have a light footprint, we were going to put a limited number of troops on the ground.  And despite what the military experts were giving as advice, and all the Department of Defense models that spoke about what it would take to bring stability, we ignored those pieces of military advice.  We didn't take the advice from the people, I like to say, with blood on their boots and medals on their chest.  We made decisions that turned out to be the wrong ones.

MR. RUSSERT:  That's it?  Arrogant bunker mentality?

GOV. HUCKABEE:  I think in times we have also given the world the impression that you're either with us 100 percent or you're against us 100 percent.  And, and you can't quite deal with foreign governments any more than you can deal with anybody, in that sense, in politics.  Politics is about getting as much as you can as often as you can, but recognizing that while you may be against me on an issue today, you may be with me on an issue tomorrow.  Try to keep the bridges going.  Try to keep roads open as much as possible.  And I do think that there have been times in which we have drawn a proverbial line in the sand and made it very clear that it's all or it's nothing.  And I think that's what I'm speaking of.

And it's interesting to me that while a few weeks ago on this program Mitt Romney was very critical of me for making that statement, a few months earlier on MEET THE--rather, on "60 Minutes," he himself had talked about the major mistakes that had been made by the administration.  He demanded of me an apology, but he did not demand of himself an apology for also being critical, as have most Republicans.  Now, I think Republicans are big enough and maybe wise enough that we can be in disagreement with certain policies and still be behind our president and behind this administration in many of the things which they have done right.  And I've been very complimentary of the president on the issues where I think he's been right.  I stood by him in the war, I stood by him in the surge.  I wasn't a latecomer like Mitt Romney was to believing that the surge was effective.  And we've seen 76 percent decline in civilian deaths, 62 percent decline in military casualties since the surge began.  It is working.  We are finally beginning to see those signs of victory in Iraq.

MR. RUSSERT:  You're suggesting that Mitt Romney's not running an honorable campaign.

GOV. HUCKABEE:  I've been very clear about it.  Mitt Romney is running a very desperate and, frankly, a dishonest campaign.  He's attacked me, and, and yesterday--or Friday, I guess it was, he launched then just a broadside attack against Senator McCain.  Now, Senator McCain and I are rivals for the presidency, but I've said on many occasions, I'll say it again here today, Senator McCain is an honorable man, and I believe he's an honest man.  I believe he's a man of conviction.  And I felt like that, when Mitt Romney went after the integrity of John McCain, he stepped across a line.  John McCain's a hero in this country.  He's a hero to me.

And I just felt like that when Mitt Romney gets on your show and says that he had the NRA endorsement when he didn't; when he comes on and says he's pro-life and yet he signed a bill that gives a $50 co-pay for an elective abortion in his state's health care plan; when he claims that he's really for the Second Amendment, but he--on this show he talked about how he supported limitations and restrictions on lawful, law-abiding citizens having gun ownership rights, those are not the marks of a person who's pro-life and pro-Second Amendment.  And then the things where he's made up these visions that he's had of marching with Martin Luther King and his dad marching with him.  You know, Tim, what I've said, and I've been pretty blunt about it, if you aren't being honest in obtaining a job, can we trust you to be honest if you get the job?

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