MCCAIN: I had a fairly spirited discussion with him at a debate and I just said, I don't think you understand the issue, if you would condone such behavior.

MATTHEWS: This race up here in New Hampshire, you look out the window, the snow, by the way, doesn't go away until May here. Let me ask you about - you've been going through the snows of New Hampshire and the latest polling we've got out tonight has you in the top two and I think it's fair to say without pushing it, you two seem to be out there alone now. You and Governor Romney from the nearby State of Massachusetts. Do you have to beat him here in his own bailiwick to call it a victory for you that night on the 8th?

MCCAIN: You know, Chris, I have to, quote, win. But whether I win or not is up to you and others. In other words, the expectation level, how you do when compared to what is expected...

MATTHEWS: How about getting the most votes. Is that a win?

MCCAIN: I think that's a win.

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MATTHEWS: But Clinton last time won by - he lost by eight points to Tsongas, the former governor - former senator from Massachusetts and he called himself the Comeback Kid. Can you pull a Clinton? Are you as quick as Clinton to claim victory here?

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MCCAIN: I'm not sure you can get away with it ...

MATTHEWS: Twice?

MCCAIN: Twice, I'm not sure. In other words, somebody said, How can you win in Iowa, you know? And it is exceeding expectations, is obviously a very big part of this thing. You and I have known too many times where someone who was expected to win big and didn't win very big, and all of a sudden they were losers.

MATTHEWS: Sure.

MCCAIN: So it's expectations level.

MATTHEWS: I remember Muskie was supposed to win up here by a certain amount and one of his staffers said, If we don't get 50 percent, I'll cut my throat, well, he should have.

Anyway, let me ask you about authenticity. Without, again, biasing anything, it seems like your comeback in the polls is real and Obama's thrust in the polls are being driven by a sense that you two are who you look like?

MCCAIN: Yes, and maybe a reexamination, in my case, of the candidates. I think that the endorsements don't lead someone to say they're going to vote for you, but I think they say, have another look at this individual.

MATTHEWS: Do you think Mr. Lieberman, your colleague in the Senate from Connecticut, a hawkish Democrat, do you think he helps you up here with the independents?

CONTINUED : On the presidential candidates

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