MR. RUSSERT: We’re going to take a quick break. A lot more of our conversation with Senator Barack Obama. He wants to be the Democratic nominee for president. Right after this, our 60^th anniversary of MEET THE PRESS continues.

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MR. RUSSERT: More with Democratic hopeful Barack Obama live from Des Moines, Iowa, after this station break.

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(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT: And we’re back in Des Moines, Iowa, with Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

Last night at the dinner you said we shouldn’t be—tell people what they want to hear, but what they should hear.

SEN. OBAMA: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: You’ve been talking a lot about lobbyists and money in politics. This is The Boston Globe in August: in eight—“Obama’s eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns came from” political action committees, “corporate contributions,” “unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial service firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.” You now talk about, “Well, I’m not taking any money from lobbyists.” You do take money from state lobbyists. You took $1.5 million from federal lobbying—employees who work for federal lobbying firms. There seems to be a real inconsistency between the amount of money you raise and where it’s coming from, and your rhetoric.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, Tim, look, I, I have said repeatedly that money is the original sin in politics and I am not sinless. I have raised money in order to bankroll my campaigns. But what I have been consistent about is fighting to reduce the influence of money in politics at every level of government. I am the only candidate in this race who has really pushed hard to reduce the influence of lobbyists. When I was in the state legislature, I passed the first campaign ethics reform legislation in 25 years. When I was in the United States Senate working with Russ Feingold, we passed the toughest ethics reform since Watergate—eliminating meals, eliminating gifts, eliminating the use of corporate jets by congressmen when they’re given by lobbyists. So I’ve got this track record, and the way I’m conducting this campaign, I think, reflects that interest in reducing money in politics.

MR. RUSSERT: But it’s all new. You did it all this...

SEN. OBAMA: No, no, no, no, no. As I said, Tim, this interest, this support of public financing of campaigns, the support of changing the ethics rules, promoting robust disclosure when it comes to how campaigns are financed, those are all laws that I have written and I have passed. So my commitment extends beyond just not taking lobbyists’ money and taking PAC money. It’s absolutely true that, in the past, there have been times where I received lobbyist and PAC money. But the interest in reducing money in politics is one that has been consistent and that I have consistently fought against. And that, I think, is the kind of track record, of being willing to take on not only Republicans, but oftentimes taking on leaders in my own party who are resistant to change that I think gives me credibility to say when I am president I am actually going to take this seriously and use my political capital to deal with it.

MR. RUSSERT: But if you say you don’t take federal lobbyist but you take state lobbyist money...

SEN. OBAMA: Well, Tim...

MR. RUSSERT: ...or you take money from people who work for federal lobbying firms, or you take $2 million from people who work on Wall Street or hundreds of thousands of dollars from people who work in pharmaceutical companies, isn’t it just a word game?

SEN. OBAMA: Tim, I mean, this is the problem when you want to try to fix Washington is if you take certain steps to improve the process, then people will say, “Well, it’s not perfect.” Well, of course it’s not perfect. That’s the problem for running for president right now is you’ve got to raise millions of dollars in order to compete. We’ve got more small donors than every other candidate on the Democratic side combined. We have set out admittedly imperfect rules to try to reduce the influence of money in politics. But you are absolutely right. Most of the people that are writing $2300 checks are wealthy people, and that’s one of the problems with our political system. That’s something that I am intent on changing, and I’ve got a track record of actually bringing about change that I believe nobody else has.

MR. RUSSERT: You talked about Senator Clinton having records released from the Clinton Library regarding her experience as first lady, and yet when you were asked about, “What about eight years in the state senate of Illinois,” you said, “I don’t know.” Where, where are the—where are your records?

SEN. OBAMA: Tim, we did not keep those records. I...

MR. RUSSERT: Are they gone?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, let’s be clear. In the state senate, every single piece of information, every document related to state government was kept by the state of Illinois and has been disclosed and is available and has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by news outlets in Illinois. The, the stuff that I did not keep has to do with, for example, my schedule. I didn’t have a schedule. I was a state senator. I wasn’t intending to have the Barack Obama State Senate Library. I didn’t have 50 or 500 people to, to help me archive these issues. So...

MR. RUSSERT: But your meetings with lobbyists and so forth, there’s no record of that?

SEN. OBAMA: I did not have a scheduler, but, as I said, every document related to my interactions with government is available right now. And, as I said, news outlets have already looked at them.

MR. RUSSERT: Is your schedule available anywhere? Are—the records exist?

SEN. OBAMA: I—Tim, I kept my own schedule. I didn’t have a scheduler.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Durbin, your colleague, publishes his schedule each day. Would you do that?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, these days I have a public presidential schedule that I think everybody has access to.

MR. RUSSERT: Tony Rezko, who is he?

SEN. OBAMA: He is a developer in Illinois. He was a friend of mine for, for over 10 years. He was, he was a supporter of Democrats and Republicans back in Illinois. He was indicted recently for issues completely unrelated to me, but obviously it’s a source of concern because he’s not only a friend but also a supporter of my campaign.

MR. RUSSERT: It appears that he raised or contributed about $168,000 for you over the course of your career...

SEN. OBAMA: Over the course of my political career. Correct.

MR. RUSSERT: ...and that he was always there to be very helpful to you at certain times. And when you bought property adjacent to each other, you bought land from him to expand your backyard.

SEN. OBAMA: Correct.

MR. RUSSERT: This was all after he had been—it had been reported he was under federal investigation.

SEN. OBAMA: Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: Why were you associating with such a person?

SEN. OBAMA: The, the purchase of the land was after he—it was reported that he was under federal investigation. The support that he gave to my campaign prior to that, at that point any problems that came up had not surfaced. I’ve already acknowledged this was a mistake. Not only should I not have been involved in any business transaction with him, in particular, but with contributors generally. But keep in mind, Tim, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing. This was a above-the-board market-based transaction. Everybody who’s looked at has acknowledged as such. But there’s no doubt that it was a mistake on my part.

MR. RUSSERT: Is he still your friend?

CONTINUED

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