Sept. 26 Democratic debate transcript

Russert: I wanted to ask Senator Gravel -- you talked about running for president of the United States.  In 1980, your condo business went bankrupt.

Gravel: Correct.

Russert: In 2004, you filed for personal bankruptcy...

Gravel: Correct.

Russert: ... leaving $85,000 in credit bills unpaid.

How can someone who did not take care of his business, could not manage his own personal finances, say that he is capable of managing the country?

Gravel: Well, first off, if you want to make a judgment of who can be the greediest people in the world when they get to public office, you can just look at the people up here.  Many of them have done very, very well in public office.

I left the Senate no better than when I went in.  Now, you say the condo business.  I will tell you, Donald Trump has been bankrupt 100 times.  So I went bankrupt once in business.  And the other -- who did I bankrupt?  I stuck the credit card companies with $90,000 worth of bills and they deserved it because I used the money...

(Laughter)

They deserved it -- and I used the money to finance the empowerment of the American people with a national initiative, so you can make the laws.

Now, Tim, let me just point one thing out.  You were asking about special interests.

Russert: You've made your point.

Gravel: Well, I wanted to make a better point.

(Laughter)

Russert: We'll leave it at that, because I've got to give everyone a chance.

Russert: Congressman Kucinich, when you were mayor of Cleveland, you let Cleveland go into bankruptcy, the first time that happened since the Depression.  The voters of Cleveland rewarded you by throwing you out of office and electing a Republican mayor of Cleveland.

How can you claim that you have the ability to manage the United States of America when you let Cleveland go bankrupt?

Kucinich: You know, Tim, that was NBC's story.  Now I want the people to know what the real story was.

I took a stand on behalf of the people of Cleveland to save a municipal electric system.  The banks and the utilities in Cleveland, the private utilities, were trying to force me to sell that system.

And so on December 15th, 1978, I told the head of the biggest bank, when he told me I had to sell the system in order to get the city's credit renewed, that I wasn't going to do it because, you know, I remember where I came from.  I remembered my parents counting pennies to pay the utility bills in one of the many apartments we lived in.

And so I know why I went into public office.  I went in to stand up for the people.  And the people in Cleveland in 1994 asked me to come back to public life because at that point they expanded a municipal electric system that the banks demanded that I sell.

And I showed the ability to stand up for the people.

You know, my campaign in '94 was "Because he was right."  And people put me in the Ohio Senate for that reason.  '96, it was "Light up Congress," as a symbol of saving the municipal electric system. And this year, it's going to be "Light up America," because I'm going to challenge those interest groups.

I put my job on the line.  How many people would be willing to put their job on the line in the face of pressure from banks and utilities?

As this story gets told, people will want me to be their next president, because they'll see in me not only the ability to take a stand, but the ability to live with integrity.

Thank you.

Russert: Governor Richardson, you talk about your experience. And yet, when you were the secretary of energy, there were security breaches at Los Alamos.  You talked about Justice White being your favorite Supreme Court justice, someone who voted against Roe v. Wade.

New Mexico ranks 48 in terms of people below the poverty line, 48th in children below the poverty line.

You said that being gay is a choice.

Based on those kinds of comments, and that record of performance, or questionable activities, how can you tell people you have the experience to be president?

Richardson: I've been in public life 25 years.  And you know, I may not be the perfect consultant, blow-dried candidate.  I make mistakes.  I admit them.

But you know, Tim, the issue is: Do I deliver?  I mean, your network covered me five months ago when I brought back the remains of five of our -- remains of Korean War soldiers.  I also persuaded, with others, the North Koreans to turn down their nuclear reactor.

As governor, today, New Mexico is the sixth fastest growing economy.  I've insured kids under 12.  Those statistics were way before me, but today, we have created a balanced budget.  New Mexico is the clean energy state.

No one ever questioned me that I deliver when I brought back American hostages and servicemen from Iraq, from Saddam Hussein, from the North Koreans, from Darfur -- I got a fragile ceasefire.  I've received four Nobel Peace Prize nominations.

You know -- sure, I've made mistakes.  And I'm going to continue making them, I can tell you right here.  But I also want you to know that the issue is: Can you deliver?

You asked Senator Clinton -- she is a candidate of experience -- Senator Obama, a fresh voice for change.  With Bill Richardson, you get both: change and experience.

That's what I am conveying to the American people.  You got to be able to deliver.  To bring change, you have to have the experience to deliver that change.

And my record in terms of foreign policy, energy policy, what I've done for my state -- I'm the only one who has negotiated with a foreign country here -- I believe I have the best of both to be this president.

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