Oct. 9 Republican debate transcript

Senator?

Thompson: I don't have to pretend that I'm a union member because I have been a union member some time -- the Screen Actors Guild still counts, doesn't it? (Laughter.)

Matthews: Yes, sir.

Thompson: All right.

No, I believe in the rights of workers to band together for their own purposes, no question about that. I do not believe a person ought to have to be a member of the union to work. I do not believe that union bosses ought to use union dues for political purposes that their members don't necessarily agree with, and I do not agree with them denying union members a secret ballot. But other than that, I think that they've done a lot of good over the years for this country and will continue to do so.

Matthews: Mayor?

Giuliani: Sure, I think unions have made a positive contribution. My grandmother was an early member of the United Ladies Garment Workers Union, and I don't know that our family would have gotten out of poverty without that. So I have a great appreciation --

Matthews: Can you sing that song, Mr. Mayor?

Giuliani: However -- pardon me?

Matthews: Can you sing that song?

Giuliani: Can I sing the song? You don't want me to --

Bartiromo: (Laughs.)

Giuliani: -- you don't want me to sing --

Matthews: Work for the union label.

Bartiromo: (Laughs.)

Giuliani: You do not want me to sing a song. Everybody will run out of this auditorium if I begin singing a song. I have a terrible voice.

But the reality is that there are good unions, and there are good unions. Our free economy is like that, and what -- you know, the UAW reached a very responsible pact the other day. I don't know that you could have gotten a solution like that if you didn't have a vibrant union. But there are ones that aren't good unions, and I think the senator is correct -- people should have a right to either belong to a union or not.

Matthews: Congressman Hunter.

Hunter: I can tell you a good union, the Steel Workers Union. When last year, Chris, we had a strike in a Kansas plant that made the tires for our humvees, I called up the president of the Steelworkers and the president of Goodyear, and within a very short period of time, they were working together, they got that thing done for the good of the country.

A union is a receptacle of power, just like management. But those folks love this country, they love their family, and they helped to build a middle class, which has been important for America and for our party. We need to work with unions to win this presidency.

Matthews: Senator Brownback.

Brownback: Sure. They've been good for the United States, I think, historically. My mother was a union member. She was a mail carrier, a rural mail carrier. She called herself a "postal packin' grandma" for a good period of time. And it helped her on health care. It helped her, I think, in some negotiations.

I think there can be abuses, and I think you're seeing some of them taking place. Department of Labor is going through and looking at some of those abuses. And I think the government has to work aggressively to see that those don't take place and that there is effective oversight, which I don't think you see during a Democrat administration. I think that is good for union members to have that effective oversight.

Matthews: Okay.

Congressman Tancredo.

Tancredo: Sam, I don't -- your mom, if she was a postal worker, believe me, she didn't need a union on top of Civil Service. (Laughter.) The fact is that --

Brownback: Don't pick on my mother. (Laughter.)

Tancredo: I'm sure she's a sweetheart.

Brownback: I love my mother. (Laughter, applause.)

Tancredo: I'm sure she's a sweetheart, but she doesn't -- she didn't need --

Brownback: Leave my mother out of this.

Tancredo: -- both, I'll guarantee you.

Really one of the problems is that we do allow civil servants to also have union benefits, and believe me, that becomes a conflict.

The creative conflict that occurs between unions and management is usually a good thing. When unions, I think, get off track is when they start to influence public policy, especially with regard to -- need I say it -- illegal immigration -- (laughter) -- allowing illegal immigration into the country, because they want to fill up their ranks.

Hunter: My mother is not an illegal immigrant.

Tancredo: Because they want to fill up their ranks. That's why they can be problematic.

Matthews: Thank you.

Bartiromo: Thank you.

Senator McCain, President Bush said GM and Ford need to produce a product that's relevant rather than look to Washington for help. Do you agree?

McCain: I'm sorry, I didn't -- we're not hearing -- we're over in the cheap seats; we don't hear very well. (Laughter, applause.)

Bartiromo: I'll repeat the question. Are you hearing me now?
President Bush said that GM and Ford need to produce a product that's relevant rather than looking to Washington for help. Do you agree?

McCain: I agree with that, but I think we in Washington have an absolute requirement to bring health care costs down. I mentioned earlier the differential between Toyota and General Motors as far as the $1,700 worth -- worth $200. It's our responsibility to stop the cost aspects of health care, which is endangering the profitability and the competitiveness of our Detroit workers.

So of course they have to do it on their own. But it is our job to create a climate where we have both a safe and secure Social Security system but also health care costs under control so that they can be competitive with foreign products.

By the way, there are automobile manufacturers moving in the southern part of this country, as you know, that are doing very well because American workers are the most productive in the world.

And by the way, I have a glass of ethanol every morning before breakfast. (Laughter.) But I still don't support the subsidies, and I don't think we need them. And I think we ought to have sugarcane- based ethanol into this country, and I don't think that subsidies are the answer, because I'll open up every foreign market to our agricultural products, who are the most productive and best and most effective agriculture in the world.

And all of this stuff about free trade -- my dear and beloved Ronald Reagan -- all this bashing of free trade -- he must spinning in his grave.