Oct. 9 Republican debate transcript

Matthews: Senator? Senator Thompson.

Thompson: On this question? Yes, I think that -- I think John has it right.
I would add that under the War Powers Act there's always a conflict between the Congress and the president as to the exact applicability of that when an engagement lasts for a particular period of time and when they must come before Congress. I don't think anybody running for president should diminish the powers of the office before he gets there and take side in a hypothetical dispute.

But I would say that in any close call, you should go to Congress, whether it's legally required or not, because you're going to need the American people, and Congress will help you. If they are voting for it or they support it, or leaders, especially in the opposite party, are convinced in looking at the evidence that this is the right thing to do, that will help you with the American people. And we have learned that over the long term, in any conflict, we've got to have the strong support of the American people over a protracted period of time.

Matthews: Okay, let's just bring it up to date on this, the political context, you know, Mayor, that Hillary Clinton has proposed -- she's co-sponsored legislation to do just this, require the president to come to Congress for any decision to go attack a nuclear facility in Iran.

Giuliani: It really depends on exigency of the circumstances and how legitimate it is that it really is an exigent circumstance. It's desirable. It's safer to go to Congress, get approval from Congress. If you're really dealing with exigent circumstance, then the president has to act in the best interests of the country.

And the point -- I think it was Congressman Paul -- made before, that we've never had an imminent attack -- I don't know where he was on September 11th. (Laughter.)

Paul: That was no country. (Applause.) That was 19 thugs. It has nothing to do with a country.

Giuliani: And there have been -- and since September -- well, I think it was kind of organized in Afghanistan and Pakistan. And if we had known about it, maybe hitting a target there quickly might have helped prevent it.

In any event, we've had 23 plots since September 11th where Islamic terrorists are planning to kill Americans, that we've had to stop. So imminent attack is a possibility and we should be ready for it.

Now, you asked me about Hillary Clinton. At the last Democratic debate, Hillary Clinton was asked by Tim Russert whether she agreed with my position on Iran. I like that form of debate, by the way.

Matthews: Okay.

Giuliani: Any time you want to do it that way. Ask her if she agrees with my other positions, as well. (Laughter.)

Matthews: (Inaudible.)

Giuliani: But on Iran -- on Iran -- on Iran what she said was -- she was asked, would you take a strong position that Iran will not be allowed to become nuclear and that we would use a military option if we had to? And she didn't answer the question. Well, you've got to answer the question. The answer is, yes, we would. Iran is a greater danger than Iraq. Iraq cannot be seen in a vacuum. And we have to be willing to use a military option to stop Iran from becoming nuclear. If we're willing to do it, we have a much better chance --

Matthews: Okay.

Giuliani: -- at having sanctions work.

Matthews: Thank you, Mayor.

Bartiromo: Let me zero in on oil. Mayor Giuliani, under your leadership, how will this country become energy -- oil independent and strike the right balance between environmental conservation and oil exploration?

Giuliani: You know, the question that Chris asked before about whether or not we would have had to have gone to war in Iraq if we were energy independent or we didn't have to depend on Middle Eastern oil, I mean, that is -- I think the answer is we probably should have and would have gone to war against Saddam Hussein anyway, but maybe not.

And certainly they'd have less leverage. And I think Iran would be a lot more of a paper tiger if we were more energy independent. So this is -- and you could go on into a lot of examples like that.

This is a matter of national security. You've got to support all the alternatives. There's no magic bullet here -- biofuels, nuclear power. We haven't licensed a nuclear power plant in 30 years. We haven't had a new refinery in 30 years. We're on hold. Hydroelectric power, solar power, wind power, conservation -- we have to support all of these things. We've got to support them in a positive way, and this is an area in which the federal government, the president has to treat this like putting a man on the moon. It is a matter of national security.

One of the ways to win the Islamic terrorist war against us is for us to be energy independent.

Bartiromo: But where do you draw the line? Do you support drilling off the coast of Florida, California?

Giuliani: You don't draw the line anywhere. What you do is you work with people to try to advance all of these technologies. You can't do everything; you can't do long-term damage to our environment. That would be a mistake, that would be an overreaction. You have to make sound judgments, and you have to advance these new technologies.

Why the heck haven't we licensed a nuclear power plant in 30 years? France is 80 percent nuclear; the United States is 20 percent nuclear, and we're going down to 15 percent.

It comes because of inaction. It comes because we're not willing to stand up and we're not willing to stand up sometimes to irrational fears and irrational special interests.