Barack Obama interview

BRIAN WILLIAMS: The MoveOn ad, General Betray-Us?  Do you think it's counter productive?

BARACK OBAMA: You know, I probably, if they had asked me, would have suggested that we focus attention on George Bush, the commander in chief.  I mean, my assessment is that General Petraeus is playing a bad hand as well as he can.

It's the President that has civilian leadership that sets the mission for General Petraeus.  And consistently throughout this war, that the first and primary failure has been with our civilian leadership.  Our military has done everything that's been asked of them.  That's the reason that George Bush sends General Petraeus out there and it's suggested somehow that he's simply implementing the proposals with General Petraeus.

That I think is disingenuous.  The fact of the matter is, the President assigned this mission to General Petraeus and said the mission is, you try to make this work and pull this together as best you can.  And the General came out with a reasonable plan, given the constraints.

I would give them a different mission, which is, let's begin getting our troops out of Iraq.  Let's get them out from the midst of a civil war.  Let's trigger different behavior on the part of the Iraqi leadership, so that they can start accommodating and-- and arriving at a political solution where there is no military solution available

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Are you ready now to say the ad was a bad idea, counter productive?

BARACK OBAMA: Well, I certainly think it was counter productive in the sense that it gave Republicans who had nothing else to stand on, something that kept attention away from the bad policy of the President.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Do you think the General is a good man?  Do you think he's a--

BARACK OBAMA: I do.  I-- I think-- I think the General, as I said, is doing the best that he can given the circumstances that have been given to him.  The failure has been with President Bush's unwillingness to fundamentally change this mission and recognize that there are limits to what the military can accomplish in the absence of any political progress.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Let's talk about your plan for Iraq.  You got coverage for the specificity of it.  When you say an international working group would come in and-- and-- and be there to keep the peace, others say, look, it is still tantamount to getting our guys out there, reversing the gains we've made.  What do you tell the parents of kids who didn't come home?

BARACK OBAMA: Well, what I'm gonna tell the parents of the kids who didn't come home is that their kids performed heroically and nobly.  And that I want to make sure I'm not talking to the next round of parents whose kids perform nobly and heroically but have been provided a flawed mission from the start by the President.

We have not made significant gains, Brian, if you look over the trajectory of this war.  We had reduced violence modestly from what it was six months ago to the intolerable level that existed a year ago.  I mean, we've literally gone in a circle.

And we know that six months from now, we will have the same troop levels that we had a year ago.  It is-- it would be wonderful if miraculously, we saw significant declines in the violence.

But the fact of the matter is, we're still seeing the violence at enormously damaging rates.  We still don't have an Iraqi government that's functional.  And some of the reductions in violence have been a consequence of ethnic cleansing in Baghdad and entire neighborhoods that have shifted from being multi-ethnic to simply Shia.

So, look, no one would like to see success more than me.  I intend to be the next President and I would love not to be inheriting a big mess.  And so, this notion that somehow Democrats had a political stake in not seeing success in Iraq I think is fundamentally mistaken.

What I question is the absence of any sort of long term strategy that does not lead us to be there for five or ten years.  Something that is unsustainable financially.  That means thousands of more American troops dead.  That continues the anti-American sentiment that we're seeing all around the world.  Hampers our ability to operate diplomatically and a host of others, yet continues to strengthen Iran.  It straps us from Al Qaeda and Afghanistan.

You know, I thought that, you know, Senator Warner's question about, is the mission that has been provided by the President gonna make us more safe?  And General Petraeus saying he didn't know, was indicative of-- that the lack of a broader national security strategy.  And that's what we really need from the next President.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: The fact that it was Senator Warner who in the parlance of Washington politics drew blood at that hearing is one of the points made by an op-ed piece--the piece in sum says that Democrats have no game on this.  That the Republicans continue to set the agenda.  That must be a source of enormous frustration to you and your party.

BARACK OBAMA: Well, look.  I mean, the fact of the matter is, is that that's part of the power of the Presidency, is you set the terms of the debate.  Now, the Democrats, we are all working in the same direction.  I think that you've seen actually a lot of consensus among Presidential candidates and among the Democratic leadership that this war has to end.

There are, you know, some constraints on what we can do.  But I think that it is important for us to all rally around the notion that we're gonna have a strong message strategy.  That we are not gonna give the President a blank check.  That we are going to continue to hold the Republican Congress' feet to the fire.

And if we do those things, then I believe that we will be able to ultimately bring a change in course.  But you know, the President's commander in chief.  And that gives him a certain amount of control that is very difficult to overcome.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: To politics, the contributions by this Mr. Hsu.  Is this a case of, as your campaign look at it, but for the grace of God go I?  Or do you think certain campaigns attract certain contributors?

BARACK OBAMA: I think money and politics is a problem generally.  And I think that all of us who are engaged in national Presidential politics are raising money.  And that creates potential hazards.

I've decided I'm not taking PAC money.  I'm not taking federal registered lobbyist money.  We vet all the contributions that come in and we get more contributions from small donors than all the other Democratic candidates combined.

Having said all that, you know, these are, you know, some of the perils of raising money in politics.  And you know, I-- I think that it is important for all of us to work towards a system in which we are not, you know, en-- engaging in practices that'll embarrass us later.

But now, one thing that we have done, and you know, I, as one of the leaders of ethics reform in Congress, was able to include a provision in the recent ethics reform legislation that requires the disclosure of lobbyists who bundle for campaign spending.

And that at least allows the public to see who the big raisers are.  I want to extend that beyond lobbyists to any bundlers and have that disclosed.  I do it voluntarily, but it's not currently the law.  If we could have more disclosure, that I think will prompt more campaigns to do a more careful job of vetting.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Could this have happened to you?  Do you look at it that way?

BARACK OBAMA: Oh, I think that there is no doubt that it could happen to any of us.  I'd like to think that we have put systems in place that will avoid it.  But I think over the long term, the problem is not of one specific instance.  The problem is a systemic one.  And we've got to solve that.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: How do you and Senator Clinton get along?

BARACK OBAMA: You know, obviously, when you're in competition in the midst of a campaign, you're not as buddy buddy as you might have been previously.  But you know, I have high regard for Senator Clinton.  I think she is a smart, capable person.

I think that our other candidates on the Democratic side have strengths and have been making their best cases to the voters.  And so, you know, the way I try to describe this is that we're all on the same team and everybody's trying out for quarterback.  And you know, once the-- once positions are decided, then everybody's gonna go out on the field and do our best to-- to win the game.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: High regard is one of those Washington phrases.

BARACK OBAMA: (LAUGHTER)  Well, look.  The-- you know, it-- I think that Senator Clinton is a terrific senator for New York.  And obviously, I wouldn't be running if I didn't think that I could make a better President at this time, at this moment in history.  But you know, there is enormous talent on the Democratic side (UNINTEL) and I think that whoever the Democratic nominee is will be the next President of the United States.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: You have a day job in the US Senate.  You're traveling all over the country.  It's one of the most grueling experiences any adult can undertake.  You wake up every morning and in a lot of polls, you're second.  You miss your wife.  You miss your two daughters.  What's the frustration level?  Compared to where you might have thought it would-- would be right now?

BARACK OBAMA: You know, the truth is, we are ahead of where, by any reasonable estimations, we should be.  I mean, here-- here I am standing.  Well, the-- the fact that I'm-- I'm running in a Democratic field that includes the most powerful Democratic operation over the last twenty years.  And I just came to national attention a few years ago in a speech at the convention.  The fact that we are competing, we are virtually tied in the early states and I've got a chance of winning the nomination, that's pretty remarkable.

Now, having said all that, the frustrations of being away from my wife and kids are enormous.  And you know, that is something that every day I think about.  You know, but-- but there are some sacrifices involved.

I was able to go to a soccer game on Saturday morning.  But I've missed an awful lot of soccer games this year.  I have-- was able to take my girls to their first day of school.  But I-- and I have made all the parents teachers conferences.  But there are a lot of things that I've missed.  And they know it and I know it.  And you know, we-- Michele and I would not be doing this if we didn't think that, at some level, it's worth it.  But it doesn't always make it easy.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Yeah.  The first time I met you, I couldn't help but hear what you were saying through the prism of a fellow married father of two.

BARACK OBAMA: Right.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Everyone has their own defense mechanism.  But it-- it hurts to miss the little events of life.

BARACK OBAMA: It does.  And then, you know, one of the things, they-- they grow up very fast, as you know.  And they are growing up remarkably well and it's a testimony to my wife.  But there are some things you're not gonna recover.  There are some things you're not gonna get back, which is why when I made the decision to run, I had to say to myself that you're not doing this for vanity.  You're not doing this because you want to see your name in the papers.  You're doing this because you genuinely think that you can bring the country together and help us meet our future challenges.  And if I didn't think I was gonna be able to do that, then this wouldn't be worth it.  It-- it exacts a high toll.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: And no regrets today?  When you got in it, you thought that by now, on a beautiful day in New York in September, you might be a little further down the line.

BARACK OBAMA: Oh, no, not at all.  I-- I mean, we always understood this to be a high risk proposition.  And that I would be the underdog.  And I think, you know, in some ways, people forgot that just because we had-- were successful in raising some money.  And that my profile raised very quickly.  And People Magazine was publishing, you know, stories and pictures about us.

You know, the truth is, is that, you know, it takes a long time for the electorate to absorb the message of a new national politician.  And you know, when we go out and talk, we find that people had a favorable impression of me.  But it's still relatively thin.  You know, they are just getting to know me.

And you know, we always understood that the only way that we would be successful is if focusing on those early states where I could spend a lot of time and we can devote a lot of resources, that I'd build enough of a trust level and a profile that we're able to be successful there.  And as a consequence, the entire nation then gets a better sense of where I stand and-- and what I believe.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: And final question.  We-- we went through the business of embracing the enemies.  The dust off with Senator Clinton.  I don't imagine that will be the last.  Do you feel calluses on your hands that you didn't have when you got into this race?

BARACK OBAMA: You know, the interesting thing is that I have I think become much cooler about the rationale for my candidacy as a consequence of some of these dust ups.  Because in each case, what I've said I believe is absolutely true and absolutely what's needed.

And it was perceived by the pundits as somehow out of box.  And it reminded me that part of what I'm running against is a conventional wisdom, the same sort of conventional wisdom that I think led a lot of us to-- a lot of people to support this war that would not have been authorized.

And I believe that strong countries with strong Presidents should talk to their adversaries.  And I think the next President is gonna have to engage in the level of personal diplomacy to repair the damage that's been done.

That is not the typical conventional approach.  I believe that we should be going after Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.  And you know, about three months-- three weeks after or four weeks after that dust up, we had Lee Hamilton and Tom Kean write an op-ed piece saying the exact same thing.

And so, what I simply think is going on here is that people in Washington are accustomed to saying certain things and providing certain rote formulas for how we think about our foreign policy.  And one of the things that I believe I offer to this race is a-- a recognition that we are in a new century.  That a new generation is gonna have to lead.  And that we've got to break out of some of the conventions if we're gonna be successful in making ourselves secure and restoring our moral standing in the world.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: I lied.  That was the second to last question.  I want to get a finerl point on this.

BARACK OBAMA: Yeah.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: It-- it doesn't frustrate you in your effort to tack that war vote on your chief opponent--that she is now ahead in a lot of important polls?

BARACK OBAMA: No.  It's to be expected.  Look, the-- the-- Bill Clinton was an extraordinarily popular President among Democrats.  Hillary Clinton is an extraordinarily popular Democrat.  I'm running in a Democratic primary.  And we understood that we were gonna be an under-- underdog from the start.

What I am absolutely convinced of is that if we get our message across effectively, that we need to unify the country, that we need to overcome the special interest driven politics that have come to dominate Washington.  If we are able to restore a sense of truth telling to our politics, that that's how we're gonna meet our big challenges.

If I can get that message across in the next four or five months, then I believe I'm gonna be the Democratic nominee.  And I also understand though that it is a difficult message to get across.  But for the public to say we are going to hire a relatively young African American Senator named BARACK Obama as leader of the free world, when we've got a known commodity that's safer in the sense that we know both their strengths and their weaknesses, that requires, you know, some effort on my part to make that sale.  But it's what I believe.  And I think that if we do our job, more and more Americans will believe it as well.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Senator, thank you very much.

BARACK OBAMA: Thank you so much.

MORE FROM NIGHTLY NEWS WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS

Nightly News with Brian Williams Section Front

Obama, Senate prep for health fight   Harwood breaks down House health bill   Fort Hood community marks solemn Sunday   20 years later, Wall’s fall still being felt   Tax provision riles California residents   To fight crime, city hires ex-cons Nightly News with Brian Williams Section Front   Add Nightly News with Brian Williams headlines to your news reader: