‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Sept. 16, 2007

SEN. McCAIN:  I think it’s a dysfunctional state.  I think we all realize that.  And that’s also what Lindsey Graham said.  And I don’t know if it’s 90 days or not, but we certainly have to see progress.  But to tell them, “Hey, we’re getting out of here, and you’ve got to stay in the neighborhood,” they’re going to accommodate to the neighborhood.

MR. RUSSERT:  If we don’t see progress in 90 days, in six months, in nine months, what do we do?

SEN. McCAIN:  Well, then, we have to examine the options.  If we continue to see success and see military progress and political progress and other progress, then what do we do?  Then we can withdraw, and then we can have less of a presence of the United States military troops on the ground, a reduction of casualties, and we’ll maybe have troops there.  We’ve had—we’ve got troops in the Balkans, we’ve got troops in South Korea, we’ve got troops in Okinawa. It’s a matter of whether Americans are being sacrificed and under—and being wounded as to whether Americans will be satisfied with the continued American presence there.

MR. RUSSERT:  Why not continue the surge, continue to try to make political progress, and then withdraw troops after those have been achieved?

SEN. KERRY:  Tim, the surge, to, to promise the Iraqis that next summer we’re going to have 130,000 plus troops there, which is exactly where we were a year ago when the country almost fell apart, is not to change the fundamental equation.  If you’re a Shia and the leader there, and you want a Shia Islamic state, the reason they’re not compromising is not because they’re not—they can’t sit down in a room to do it, it’s because their constituencies don’t want to do it.  The Shia want a Shia Islamic state.  The Sunni want to return to power and, and believe they’re born to the right to run Iraq.  Now, unless you resolve the fundamental differences between those two in some way, either through the pluralistic democratic government, which they don’t seem capable of doing, or through some kind of loose federalism where they’re OK to live apart, which they’re proving they may need to do, unless you do that, nothing is going to happen.  No surge, no amount of troops will resolve that.

How many times do we have to hear President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Condi Rice, General Casey, General Abizaid, General Petraeus, all say there is no military solution?  Well, if there is no military solution, where is the political solution?

You know, let me read you—these are seven troops.  They wrote it in The New York Times, 82^nd Airborne.  They’ve been there the whole tour.  And they wrote, “To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is farfetched.  As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82^nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent past coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable.” And they go on to say it, two of them, Sergeant Mora and Sergeant Gray were killed the other day, one wounded—and another one wounded.  These, you know, you got to listen to these people.

The, the Iraqis have fundamental differences that will not be resolved by a surge.  It is not dependent on the security.  And as General Jones said, the, you know, what happened in Anbar was a—General Jones didn’t say this, but what happened in Anbar was a political decision first.  The political leaders said, “We’re going to fight al-Qaeda,” and then they joined with the Americans.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator, this—your views may be all well and good, and the Democrats may be fine, and you may have 52 votes.  But the president has said, “I’m sorry.  I’ve heard you, I’ve heard General Petraeus, I’m going with General Petraeus.” What do the Democrats do now?  If you want to stop the war, you have but one choice, and that is, in effect, stop the funding.  Close down the...

SEN. KERRY:  Well, actually...

MR. RUSSERT:  Close down the government and say, “Not one more penny for the war in Iraq, Mr. President.” Otherwise, the war will go forward as President Bush intends it to.

SEN. KERRY:  Well, actually, we don’t have that choice because everything depends on having 60 votes or 67 votes to override a veto.  So any law that we pass, the president has the power, through a pen, to be able to negate.  So what we need today is a change of attitude by some Republicans who, who, who shouldn’t be content to stand up and give a strong speech condemning what’s happening or accurately describing what I’ve described, but then not voting to put it into place.

And that is what the 2008 election will be significantly about:  How do you make America stronger?  I believe the president’s rhetoric and the rhetoric of those who talk about surrender and who talk about the, the Democrats choosing to lose is insulting and incorrect.  We’re choosing to win for America.  We’re choosing to strengthen our country.  We’re choosing to be able to have a policy that reasserts American moral authority and puts us in a position to leverage peace in the Middle East, to deal with Hamas, Hezbollah, to deal with Lebanon, to deal with Iraq and Iran.  And right now, Iran loves what’s happening.  We’re playing right into their hands, and the national...

MR. RUSSERT:  But will you...

SEN. KERRY:  ...(unintelligible).

MR. RUSSERT:  ...will you vote to cut off funding for the war?

SEN. KERRY:  I will vote to change the funding to a different mission.  I will fund the troops to protect the national security interests of America, to accomplish a mission that, that increases our national security and protects the troops themselves.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator, if a, if a majority of the Congress wants a different policy, if the majority of the American people want a different policy, can you sustain a war without their support?

SEN. McCAIN:  Not forever.  The majority of Americans were opposed to and wanted to us out of Korea.  Thanks to a very brave president named Harry Truman, Korea is now—at least South Korea is now free today.

On this issue of bringing up men and women who are serving and how they feel about the war, look, I hear from them all the time.  I lament the loss of those brave, young—two young Americans who wrote that piece.  I hear from hundreds of them every day, just like in Vietnam, despite what the, the—what was accepted, Americans wanted to win in Vietnam, they want to win here.  I hear from these men and women, hundreds of them, all the time.  They want us to win.  And to go back to the same failed strategy of before and somehow say that everything’s going to be fine in the Middle East if we draw—if we announce that we’re leaving, I think does not comport with the reality or history.  And we’ve been through these fights before as to whether the United States should direct its influence throughout the world, and I believe that this is some way a repeat of that.  But the fact is that we are succeeding militarily.  We are succeeding in a new tactic, and that is succeeding.  And in Anbar province,by the way, I asked General Petraeus, he said the reason why we had that success in Anbar province is we had the extra 4,000 Marines to send there.  And that was—solidified that position.  We all want to see progress.  We are seeing progress.  To pull the plug at this particular time, I believe, would be disastrous for the future of this country.

MR. RUSSERT:  When you say win, how do you define win?

SEN. McCAIN:  The same way you, you succeed in any counterinsurgency.  The government functions effectively, there’s an environment of security, there’s probably long-term conflicts within the country, as there has been with other insurgency.  But, basically, you continue to progress and to bring a free and open and democratic society and fight back.  Look, this is an evil, this is an evil influence.  They think they’re winning.  Maybe John doesn’t.  But if you listen to bin Laden, Zarqawi and all that they say they drove us out of Beirut, they drove us out of Mogadishu, they hit the U.S.S.  Cole, they attacked our embassies, and they’re saying, “We’ll drive them out of Iraq, and we will succeed.” And so you listen to what he...

SEN. KERRY:  And where is he saying that?  He’s saying that from the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

SEN. McCAIN:  And he’s able to reach, and he’s, and he’s able to reach every corner of the world.

SEN. KERRY:  Yeah, and he’s able to do it because this administration took their eye off of him and chose to go to war in a place that had nothing to do with the war on terror.  And the fact is, as I said before, al-Qaeda loves our being in Iraq.  If you want to put al-Qaeda off balance...

SEN. McCAIN:  Al-Qaeda...(unintelligible)...in Iraq.

SEN. KERRY:  ...then change the equation.  And Iran loves the fact that we’re in Iraq.

SEN. McCAIN:  And Iran loves to be in Iraq.

SEN. KERRY:  And Iran is getting stronger.  Excuse me?

SEN. McCAIN:  And Iran loves to be in Iraq, and they are in Iraq.

SEN. KERRY:  Well, Iran is in Iraq.

SEN. McCAIN:  And al-Qaeda is in Iraq.

SEN. KERRY:  Iran has thousands...

SEN. McCAIN:  ...and al-Qaeda is—if we don’t continue to beat them back, will be a major influence...

SEN. KERRY:  John...

SEN. McCAIN:  ...and have training bases, and they will have...

SEN. KERRY:  ...you’re debating with yourself...

SEN. McCAIN:  ...and they will...

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