‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Aug. 26, 2007

MR. TIM RUSSERT:  Our issues this Sunday, a new National Intelligence Estimate paints a grim picture of Iraq.  The senior GOP senator on the Armed Services Committee, just back from Iraq, has blunt advice for the president: start withdrawing some U.S. troops by December of this year.

(Videotape)

SENATOR JOHN WARNER (R-VA):  We simply cannot, as a nation, stand and put our troops at continuous risk for the loss of life and limb without beginning to take some decisive action which will get everybody’s attention.

(End of videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Our guest, Senator John Warner, Republican of Virginia.

And a reality check from three reporters:  The New York Times’ Michael Gordon, author of “Cobra II:  The Inside Story of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq”; The Washington Post’s Tom Ricks, author of “Fiasco:  The American Military Adventure in Iraq”; and NBC’s war correspondent Richard Engel.

Then, in 1996, he was stricken with cancer.  Doctors gave him less than a 50 percent chance to live.  Three years later he dominated the world of cycling. Tomorrow he hosts a presidential forum on one issue, the fight against cancer. An exclusive interview with seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong.

But first, he is just back from Iraq, and he is here on MEET THE PRESS this morning to tell the American people what he saw and what he recommends.

Senator John Warner, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. WARNER:  Thank you very much.

MR. RUSSERT:  You came back from Iraq and suggested to the president that he begin to withdraw some troops by Christmas of this year.  What message were you trying to send to the president?

SEN. WARNER:  The exact words, said I, “Most respectfully, Mr. President, and I mean this, most respectfully suggest that you put some teeth behind your words.” You go back to the January 10^th message when he instituted the surge, he said, “We will, in partnership with Maliki, we’ll do the military part and bring about a lessening of the severe security threats.  That will enable you to have,” and I quote him, “breathing space.” And now, Mr. Maliki, you do the political reconciliation.  And with the convergence of those two actions, we hope to bring about a greater stability for Iraq.  Our troops have performed magnificently under brilliant leadership and have done precisely as the president asked.  They have made measurable gains in bringing about a degree of stability in Baghdad and the environs.  But the government, under the leadership of Maliki and other Iraqi leaders, have totally failed to put the other part of that partnership in place, namely deliver greater security...

MR. RUSSERT:  Is the headline...

SEN. WARNER:  ...and reconciliation.

MR. RUSSERT:  Is the headline Warner to Bush:  Withdraw troops and get Maliki’s attention?

SEN. WARNER:  That’s correct.  I put this out as a suggestion and put it in the public domain.  It’s drawn a lot of controversy, I recognize that.  But this will help the American people better understand the complexity of the many issues that are going to be brought up to the president first by the ambassador, a very able man, coming back from Iraq; General Petraeus, the overall on-scene commander; General Jones, who is preparing a special report on the status of the security forces; and, indeed, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is going to come forward with his views.  All this converges in the first 15 days of September.  And then under the law—I had a hand in writing that law—the president will advise the people of this country and the Congress on such changes in strategies as he, as the president, desires.

MR. RUSSERT:  A U.S. military commander in Iraq has offered a response to you.  He—in one of the most troubled areas, he said “that embracing John Warner’s call to begin troop withdrawals before the end of the year ‘would be a giant step backward.’” Army Major General Rick Lynch, commander of troops south of Baghdad said in such a scenario militants pushed from his sector in recent operations would quickly return.  “If coalition soldiers were to leave, having fought hard for what—that terrain, having denied the enemy their sanctuaries, what would happen is the enemy would come back.  He’d start building the bombs again, he’d start attacking the locals again, he’d start exporting that violence into Baghdad, and we would take a giant step backward.”

SEN. WARNER:  My first reply is I thank the general and all of the others in his command and all those throughout Iraq in uniform and, indeed, many civilians that are taking the risk to make the surge work.  But I draw to the general’s attention the fact that witnesses have come before the Armed Services Committee and the Congress time and time again, senior officers, and said there’s no military solution to this problem.

Listen to what Admiral Mullens said when he came up for clearance to be the next chairman.  Incoming Chairman Mullens stated, “Without political progress in Iraq, no amount of troops, no amount of time will make much of a difference.”

So with all respect to the general, what I’m trying to do, General, is to get the attention of our president, those making a decision and, indeed, the American public of the necessity to bring some type of decisive pressure upon this government to deliver on the reconciliation.  Reconciliation, General Lynch, can bring about a greater cessation, a greater stability, not only in your region but throughout Iraq, than all the bullets and the arms together.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you believe that the Iraqi armor is strong enough to secure the country by taking the lead role with their defense forces?

SEN. WARNER:  On this trip we learned, and it was somewhat to my surprise, that our commander said there’s been noticeable improvement in the ability of the Iraqi forces to take charge and do certain operations.  They still require a great deal of backup, particularly as it relates to logistics and heavy weapon and air power and intelligence from the coalition forces—principly the United States—but they are making progress.  But I want to wait until what General Jones and a team of very dedicated, some 20-odd retired individuals, who’ve gone over there on two occasions spent a lot of time, and they’re going to file their report on 4 September, and it’ll be made available to the public as soon as Congress hears from General Jones.  I anticipate that’ll be on the 6^th of September.

MR. RUSSERT:  As you know, the Los Angeles Times reported that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Peter Pace, is going to recommend to the president that there be a significant withdrawal next year, perhaps more than half the troops in Iraq, perhaps over 100,000.  He said that that is a speculative report, but you’ve heard the testimony.  Can the United States keep 150,000 men and women in Iraq throughout 2008 without straining the military?

SEN. WARNER:  Clearly, the—all military advisers indicate that we’ve gone to this extreme of requiring our soldiers to stay 15 months in that intense heat and climate and all those risks.  You have to go beyond that 15 months if you tried to push them further into 2008.  What—now, I want to make it clear that I have checked out that report that’s in the Los Angeles Times.  The Pentagon at this time is not fully knocking it down nor verifying it, but you’ve got to give the chairman a chance to come forward himself.

This week I have learned the Department of Defense and our field commanders in Iraq, General Petraeus and another very able field commander, General Odierno, are going to sit down and communicate with the White House team and reconcile such difference of abuse and approaches as they have.  The team in Iraq wanted to stay there with the full force as long as they can, obviously.  The team back home are looking at the broader picture that it’s putting a stress on the military forces, which, in the words of General Casey, could jeopardize the all-volunteer force.  And secondly, if America is faced with other contingencies and has to resort to the utilization of our—particularly our ground forces quickly, will that contingency be able to be filled by trained and ready troops?

MR. RUSSERT:  And what’s the answer?

SEN. WARNER:  The answer is clearly we have a problem and we better solve it.

MR. RUSSERT:  Bottom line, Senator, we have no choice, by listening to you, than to have a significant withdrawal of troops from Iraq next year.

SEN. WARNER:  I’m going to leave that to the president to announce or address that issue on the 15^th of September.

MR. RUSSERT:  The National Intelligence Estimate is out, and it talks about political reconciliation, saying that it is unlikely to emerge, assessing the current situation on the ground.  The Washington Post quoted Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki this way, that he “rebuked American politicians for threatening” “withdraw support from his government, suggesting while” he’s in Syria “that he could ‘find friends elsewhere’ if he was abandoned by the United States.” And, “‘No one has the right to place timetables on the Iraq government.’” Do you agree with that?

SEN. WARNER:  They’re a sovereign nation, Tim.  We established that sovereignty, and they have the earmarks of democracy.  Whether democracy as we understand it here in the West will eventually survive, I don’t know.  But it is essential, and I fully support the president’s view that this region is vital to our current and future national security interests, and, indeed, many other nations of the world, not only in relationship for maintaining a democracy in Israel, but how we go about resolving problems in Lebanon, in Palestine area, the serious situation between Iran trying to develop nuclear weapons.  We must maintain, as a nation, the United States, every ounce of credibility we can in that region.

MR. RUSSERT:  But, Senator, we’ve lost nearly 4,000 men and women, 25,000 injured and wounded.  Do we not have a right and obligation to put timetables on the Iraqi government for performance or say, :If you don’t meet those, we will get out”?

SEN. WARNER:  That’s precisely what I said to the president.  I said, “Here is an option.  You can initiate a first withdrawal.  You pick the number, Mr. President.  And it would send a signal to the Iraqi government that matches your words.” His words being, “We’re not going to be there forever.” And Ambassador Crocker just recently said, “We’re not giving you a blank check.” So I think we’ve got to show our resolve in the face of the Iraqi government in action, and—but I want the president to make the decision, as he’s under the Constitution required, with regard to when the troops stay, when they leave, not the Congress trying to write and enforce that timetable.

MR. RUSSERT:  But you have, you have no problem for President Bush to give Prime Minister Maliki a timetable for performance?

SEN. WARNER:  All President Bush has got to say is back up his words “We’re not going to be there forever.” This is just one idea.  If there’s a better idea, put it on the table, I say to those who criticized it.  Put it on the table.  But the president has got to talk; I think put teeth in these comments that we’re not there forever.

MR. RUSSERT:  Muqtada al-Sadr, leader of the Shiite militias, Prime Minister Maliki told Richard Engel of the NBC News, who’ll be on the program later, that he and Sadr are from the same school and that he does not see Sadr as a threat to Iraq.  Do you agree?

SEN. WARNER:  That’s very troublesome.  Sadr has a very significant military force—we call it the private militias—under his command and control.  I say “under his.” Sometimes they deviate and are more militant, perhaps, than he would like.  Hakim also has, over here, the Badr corps, another military outfit.  They’re constantly fighting together.  The point is that I think Sadr is a force to be reckoned with, and it’s, it’s a force that you’ve got to be very careful of how you deal with.  But I think Maliki has failed in trying to eliminate those private militias.  Because they’re clearly receiving help, support and weapons from Iran.  We know that to be a fact.

MR. RUSSERT:  Is Sadr anti-American?

SEN. WARNER:  I think Sadr is looking out for Sadr’s interest.  This whole thing in Iraq, Tim, regrettably, is a struggle for power.  The Shia at the present time have the greater proportion.  The Sunnis want to get as much power back as they can, and this cleavage is what undercuts everything with all of this internecine warfare, this fighting between Shia, Sunni.  And the Kurds are sitting back, because they have a little more security up there where they are, and we gave them security in the early days, you know?  And they’re just hoping to try and get their piece.  But unless you get a unity government with Sunni, Shia and Kurds reconciled on what is their proportion of the government, what is their proportion of the natural resources, and what is their proportion of the funds that flow out of the government to the various parts of Iraq, you’re not going to get any peace.

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