‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Aug. 12, 2007

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

MR. YORK:  ...his religious principles play enough of a role in his candidacy.  So, you know, once you see the real Mitt Romney, I think people find it a little more attractive than, than the packaged candidate.

MR. GREGORY:  All right.  Let, let me move on to the Democrats and take a look at some numbers.  First from the Iowa Democratic caucus, the University of Iowa poll has Hillary Clinton on, on top at 27 percent.  But when you look at the more hard-core voters, most likely voters, it is John Edwards who has an edge, and Barack Obama still in it.  John Edwards, of course, has put in a lot of time there as well.  And yet you look at the national picture, it is a different story as Hillary Clinton continues to build on her lead, 44 percent, according to CNN/Opinion Research, Obama at 24 percent, and Edwards at 16.

Margaret Carlson, you moderated a forum with gays and lesbians in Los Angeles this week.  And it was an example of the Democratic candidates walking a fine line on some issues like “don’t ask, don’t tell” in the military and same-sex marriage.  John Edwards speaking at that forum, let’s listen to a portion of it.

(Videotape)

FMR. SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC):  And by the way, don’t—just as an aside, “don’t ask, don’t tell” is not just wrong now, it was wrong when it began. It’s been wrong the entire time.  As is true with DOMA.  Exactly the same thing’s true with DOMA.  All I can tell you is where I am today.  That’s the best I can do.  You deserve to know that from me.  Today, I believe in all these other things, but I, I do not support same-sex marriage.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  DOMA, by the way, the Defense of Marriage Act signed by President Clinton, which denies federal recognition of same-sex marriage.

Apropos of our discussion earlier with Markos Moulitsas and, and Harold Ford, some of the, the groups that are appearing before the Democratic field, is it a sign that the base of the party is taking over more of the mainstream of the party?

MS. CARLSON:  Well, you know, the labor and the Human Rights Campaign forums and debates this week suggest to me that the Democratic base is really the middle American base now.  And if you look at polls on how people feel about things, it’s true.  The, the fight that was had last time over gays, I don’t think we’re going to have that this time.  I don’t think Bush saying there’s going to be an amendment to discriminate against gays...

MR. GREGORY:  To the constitution, yeah.

MS. CARLSON:  ...I don’t, I don’t think that’s going to come up with quite that passion this time around.  And on the labor thing, the, the Democrats sounded, you know, like they would work your second shift, they wanted the labor vote so badly.  And Mrs.  Clinton said, you know, “I’m your girl.” But as the middle class feels in trouble, the labor position becomes a majority position.  And the person who won that debate was the steel worker who stood up and said, “I worked for 36 years and every morning I sit across from my wife, and I say—to the steel company—why don’t have I health care and why don’t I have a pension?” They’re bewildered by what happened.

MR. DUFFY:  I think, I think what’s interesting about the, the labor debate is less the issues so much is the fact that it finally gives the Democrats a forum to talk about the economy.  They’ve been talking about the Iraq war so much, where they really are divided between Markos’ group and a group like Harold Ford’s about what to do and where to go and how we got here, that when they get to talk about economics, they actually get to talk about things that they’re much more inclined to be in line about—corporate taxes, jobs going overseas, the availability of health care.  It’s actually a point of common ground for the Democratic Party given their divisions on other fronts, particularly the war.

MR. GREGORY:  It is interesting, Chuck, when Margaret mentions the “I’m your girl” comment by Hillary Clinton, what she was talking about is “I’ve got the experience going up against the Republicans, against the right wing.” Experience, again, the major thread here.  “I can win.” There’s a lot of pragmatism coming in to these conversations now.

MR. TODD:  A little bit.  And, you know, pragmatism ruled the day in 2004. And that’s how John Kerry ended up beating Howard Dean.

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

MR. TODD:  They just picked the wrong electable Democrat, arguably.  But I think what’s interesting about all these forums is how much they are helping Hillary Clinton in this respect.  She was not seen as the—inside the Democrat Party as a rank and file liberal, as somebody who was, you know, there was almost so much of her husband’s reputation rubbing off on her.  “She’s a triangulator, she’s this, she’s...”—but just by simply showing up to these things.  Yeah, what I found interesting about your forum, Margaret, is that she actually had some of the same positions as Bill Richardson.  Same sort of, but she, A, wasn’t uncomfortable.  She actually said, “Geez,” you know, “if it wasn’t for DOMA, the constitutional amendment to, to restrict gay marriage would’ve passed.” It was, it was an amazing Bill Clintonesque statement by her.

MS. CARLSON:  Right.  Yes.  Hillary did it.  Yes.

MR. TODD:  She defended DOMA in front of that crowd and got cheers.

MS. CARLSON:  Yeah.

MR. TODD:  It’s—it’s allowing her to look like she wants to be a liberal...

MR. GREGORY:  Mm-hmm.

MR. TODD:  ...but then not act like a liberal at the same time.  It’s an interesting—and it’s simply because there are so many of these forums...

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

MR. TODD:  And she’s going to these...

MR. GREGORY:  Byron, the big debate between Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama has been on the experience question, particularly when it comes to foreign policy and a debate about the use of nuclear weapons in the war on terror.  This is what she had to say in, in response to Senator Obama talking about the, the nuclear question when going after terrorists in Pakistan.  This was a couple of weeks ago.

(Videotape, August 2, 2007)

SEN. CLINTON:  I don’t believe that any president should make any blanket statements with respect to the use or non-use of nuclear weapons.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY:  And yet, on this same question, she was asked in, in a different context and had, it seems, a different answer.  This is how The New York Times reported it last week.  “Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, who has criticized Senator Barack Obama for saying he would rule out using nuclear weapons to root out terrorists in Afghanistan or Pakistan, made a similar comment regarding Iran last year, before she became a presidential candidate.

‘I would certainly take nuclear weapons off the table,’ Mrs.  Clinton told Bloomberg Television in an interview in April 2006, responding to a question about how the Bush administration should try to prevent Iran from building up its nuclear program.” Is there any inconsistency there?

MR. YORK:  Oh, yeah, I think there was, actually.  And I think she, she lost the advantage, I think, that she had gained at the Democratic debate in Charleston when they, when they clashed over meeting with leaders of rogue states.  I thought her, her answer was pretty superior to Obama’s.  And then, you know, then Obama comes out, and he’s basically, you know, he’s basically saying, “We’re going to go after the bad guys wherever they are.  And if we have actionable intelligence, we’re going to act,” which is what everybody kind of agrees with.  And I think she took it a little too far in criticizing what he said about nuclear weapons, maybe forgot that she had said the same thing earlier.

MR. GREGORY:  Anybody—another comment on how this plays out?

MS. CARLSON:  I, I, I think these two candidates have to gin up differences. This is like a notch above the David Geffen fight.  So Hillary, you know, took nuclear weapons off the table before she put them back on the table, and the—her, her, her quest to find him naive and irresponsible lost out as a result of that.

MR. DUFFY:  I also think that they want to have this debate about foreign policy, but—because they both think they have—they can expand their, their support, Obama on the left, Hillary in the middle.  I’m just not clear that that’s—that they can sustain it for six months.  It looked like it was off to a good start, but...

MR. GREGORY:  Michael Duffy, I want to mention your book, “The Preacher and the Presidents:  Billy Graham in the White House.” And what’s interesting about this book, in part, talking about Hillary Clinton and, and some of the way that she’s positioning herself, he speaks very highly of her.

MR. DUFFY:  Yes.  They’ve been friends for about 18 years, and the book makes clear that during the Monica Lewinsky scandal that she sought his help in trying to understand—try to get to forgiveness for her husband.  In fact, they, they both did.  And he says about Hillary Clinton essentially what you often hear from people who know a presidential candidate personally, which is that in person they’re really nice and warm and sweet and gentle, and you just don’t get to see that...

MS. CARLSON:  They all are.

MR. DUFFY:  ...on television.

MR. GREGORY:  Right, right.

MR. DUFFY:  Which is true of—I think that’s true of everyone on television.

MS. CARLSON:  Yes.  Right.  You’re, you’re obviously a great guy, Mike.

MR. TODD:  You’re much nicer off air...

MR. GREGORY:  I, I, I want to conclude here with the—in Chuck Todd, we have a living, breathing Day-Timer.  So when we go to him on all these, these calendar questions—and the primary calendar is getting confusing.  Let’s put it up on the screen and look at where we are at this point for 2008.  South Carolina GOP primary, now February 2^nd—was February 2^nd, moving to January 19^th.  The South Carolina—that’s the GOP primary.  New Hampshire primary, January 22^nd to no later than January 12^th is, is the thought.  And the Iowa caucus is January 14^th.  Maybe does it move to December ‘07 or early January 2008?  Chuck, what’s going on?

MR. TODD:  Well, it looks like the, the Iowans are pretty determined to make sure it’s 2008.  I think the most important thing is New Hampshire.  The New Hampshire Secretary of State Bill Gardner, who controls this entire process, because he has the power to set the New Hampshire primary at any moment in time.  And don’t forget, all the presidential candidates have invested already millions of dollars on—the front-runners on both sides—in making sure—in assuming that Iowa and New Hampshire are first.  So that is what’s going to happen.  They are going to be first and second.  I think you’re going to see Gardner hit this Saturday or Thursday primary.  You know, they changed the law two months ago to give Gardner the power of not just putting it on a Tuesday, but to put it on any day of the week.  So I think we’re likely to see a Saturday event.

MR. GREGORY:  Right.

MR. TODD:  I think some think it’s good.  And either a Saturday caucus or a Monday caucus before.

MR. GREGORY:  And the bottom line, we could have this wrapped up pretty early next year.

MR. TODD:  We, we are.  But it’s still—you know, all this upheaval, it’s still going to be Iowa first...

MS. CARLSON:  We could have a Christmas—we could have a Christmas caucus.

MR. TODD:  No we’re not—it’s still going to be Iowa first, New Hampshire second, and then...

MR. GREGORY:  All right, we will leave it there.  Thanks to all of you. We’ll be right back.

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