‘Meet the Press’ transcript for June 24, 2007

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...to make this country.  Pat, if you focus simply on the border, they will continue to come as students, as guest workers to this country, as tourists to this country, and overstay.  I want to end illegal immigration as we know it.

MR. BUCHANAN:  They way to do it is punish it.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  Let’s work together to get that done.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Punish it!

MR. RUSSERT:  That has...

MR. BUCHANAN:  Punish illegal immigration, then, if you want to end it.

MR. RUSSERT:  That has to be the last word.  A pretty good microcosm of the debate we’re hearing all across the country.

Pat Buchanan, Congressman Gutierrez...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  Thank you so much.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...thank you very much.  Thank you.

Coming next, the race for the White House in 2008.  Lots of Democrats, lots of Republicans, and maybe one very wealthy independent, Mike Bloomberg the mayor of New York.  Our roundtable is next, only on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  Our political roundtable, David Broder, John Harwood, Roger Simon, Gwen Ifill.  They are all here next, right after this station break.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  Welcome all.  Let’s just pick up on immigration.  Here’s an article from the Los Angeles Times.  “Two conservative senators [Saxby Chambliss]” of Georgia, “[Lindsey Graham]” of South Carolina, “were booed by Republican crowds in their home states for endorsing the legalization effort.  And conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh attacked the Bush-backed plan as the ‘Destroy the Republican Party Act.’”

John Harwood, what is the immigration debate doing to the Republican Party?

MR. JOHN HARWOOD:  You know, one of the problems, Tim, is when your party is down, when it’s shrinking, your base has even more impact on incumbent officeholders.  And so the pressure that the right is bringing on this issue on Republicans is really isolating their party, putting them in a dangerous position for 2008.  Because when, you, you know, Pat talked about Pete Wilson.  There is some short-term gain that some advocates of his position can get.  But really, over the long term, you put your party in a bad place.  President Bush is right about this in a political sense, question is whether he can prevail this year.  A lot of Republican presidential candidates are hoping—who are attacking this bill are hoping it passes, because they want to get this issue off the table for general election purposes.

MR. RUSSERT:  David Broder, the Democrats—you stirred things up, you wrote a column about Harry Reid, the majority leader, suggesting some ineptitude in his behavior.  And 50 Democratic senators wrote a letter in lockstep to The Post, saying he’s done a skillful job, Broder’s wrong.  But you followed up with another column about Mr. Reid and his handling of immigration.  Let’s read it.  “[Senate Majority Leader Harry] Reid may think that Bush will suffer if immigration reform is killed.  But the public is likely to put the blame where it principally belongs—on the leader of the party that runs the Senate.” Explain.

MR. DAVID BRODER:  Well, the Democrats have taken the position that they now will do with the nation’s business.  And if they’re not doing that business, and clearly the immigration issue is very much on people’s mind, I think they will suffer the same consequences that the Republicans suffered a year ago.  People are fed up with seeing Washington bickering, fighting, infighting and never dealing with the issue.

MR. RUSSERT:  Gwen Ifill, the approval rate for Congress is lower than that of President Bush.  One poll had it at 23, one had as low as 18.

MS. GWEN IFILL:  That’s why the president could come out in his radio address yesterday and call for political courage on the part of Congress on immigration because he’s got nothing to lose.  It’s a question of who do you despise more, according to these polls.

But, hey, David has a point.  What we just saw, this, this, this debate between the congressman and Pat Buchanan, Congressman Gutierrez, is exactly what this has all boiled down to, which is people taking their sides, digging in their heels and not searching for any middle ground at all, which is what would have to happen for this Senate bill, when it comes back up this week, to actually come to something.  So you wonder if, if there is any good faith left at all to come up with any conclusion that would actually get a bill out of the, out of the Senate or the House.

MR. RUSSERT:  The Democrats...

MR. HARWOOD:  Mike Bloomberg’s liking this debate.

MS. IFILL:  Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT:  We’re going to get to Mike Bloomberg in a little bit.

Roger Simon, the Democrats have told President Bush, “We can’t pass this alone.  In the House of Representatives, we’re going to need at least 60 of your members to come with us.” Does the president have the political juice to deliver 60 Republican congressmen?

MR. ROGER SIMON:  No.  His juice was spent on the war in Iraq.  But the point is how did the immigration matter become a crisis?  Was it a crisis a few years ago?  Immigration is a legitimate problem; it is not a legitimate crisis in America.  It was ginned up as a national security crisis to get Republican gains in the ‘06 elections, and it didn’t work, and now we’re still left with it as a crisis.  There are not thousands of terrorists coming over the border from Mexico.  The terrorists from 9/11 came legally from Saudi Arabia.

The difficulty of this bill—and the bill is worse than the status quo.  The illegal system we have now is better than this bill because it doesn’t promise anything.  The difficulty with this bill is that you can’t stop illegal immigration at the border.  You can only stop it at the work site, and this bill really doesn’t do anything to give employers a legitimate way of knowing illegal workers from legal ones.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me turn to the 2008 race for the White House, start with Hillary Clinton.  Ron Fournier, the veteran political correspondent for the Associated Press, wrote a column in which he talked about Hillary Clinton’s sense of humor and her experience and her abilities on the campaign trail, but then wrote this.  “Slick Hillary?  Former president Clinton earned the nickname ‘Slick Willy’ for his mastery in the political arts of ducking and dodging.  He had a knack for convincing people on both sides of an issue that he agreed with them.

“His wife may not be as smooth, but Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is doing a passable impression of the ever-parsing former president.

“Would she pardon Scooter Libby?  No comment.  Would she nominate a union leader to be secretary of labor?  Maybe.  Would she repeal the North American Free Trade Agreement?  Can’t say.

“She told a crowd that she’d been calling for troop withdrawal ‘for some time,’ not mentioning that her rivals have held that position for a longer period.  On the other hand, she said some troops will need to remain in Iraq to contain al-Qaeda, protect Kurds, keep an eye on Iran, protect the U.S.  embassy and maybe train Iraqi forces.

“The answer offered a little something for everybody for or against U.S.  involvement in Iraq.  Pretty slick.”

Gwen Ifill, what’s your take?

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