‘Meet the Press’ transcript for June 24, 2007

REP. GUTIERREZ:  Let me, let me, let me say one other thing.  We have the largest—the largest guest worker program in the history of the United States.  It’s called 12 million undocumented workers.  I want them to stop reducing wages of American workers...

MR. BUCHANAN:  They don’t have documents because they’re here illegally.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...and protect American workers.  I want them to protect American workers.  You know what they do because of their undocumented status?  They actually do compete in the work space unfairly, damaging American workers.  So if we’re not going to deport them, which you said is unrealistic, then we need to legalize them, document them...

MR. BUCHANAN:  No, no, no.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...so that they can become part of the fabric of our society.

MR. BUCHANAN:  They will go home.  Attrition—they will go home by attrition if you enforce the laws.  When the Italian folks came to this country late 19^th, early 20^th century, many of them stayed, got jobs, became citizens.  Some didn’t find what they wanted.  But because there was no welfare state, others went back home.  What I’m saying is don’t—you don’t run around, start deporting workers in this country who are nannies or mowing lawns or washing cars or things like that.  Deport the criminals, deport the gang members, deport the people who are a real problem.  The other thing can be taken care of itself by attrition.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  Well...

MR. RUSSERT:  Before we get—I want to talk about the politics of this.  According to The Wall Street Journal, NBC’s latest poll, Pat Buchanan, Hispanics now identify themselves as Democrats over Republicans 51 to 21.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  When Governor Pete Wilson of California enacted Proposition 187 in 1994, he had received 47 percent of the Hispanic vote, it went down to 25.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you believe that the Republican Party can continue to be a viable national party if Hispanics align against them by a margin of two to one?

MR. BUCHANAN:  Well first, take Pete Wilson.  He was 20 points behind, and he ran on the anti-illegal immigration Prop 187.  He won by 10 points, it was the greatest turnaround in California political history.

Second, your point is well taken.  You certainly do need Hispanic votes, I mean, because they’re a growing percentage of the population, 14.4 percent.  But, Tim, I’d remind you, Proposition 20 in Arizona, which all the Republicans opposed, said no welfare for people who can’t prove they’re citizens.  Forty-seven percent of Arizona Hispanics who were American citizens voted for it.  It won in a landslide.  It is wrong to say Hispanic-Americans don’t want the laws enforced, or don’t want their borders secured.  We can win those folks.  But you do not win them by granting mass amnesty to mass illegality.

MR. RUSSERT:  Will this bill pass the Senate?  Will it pass the House?  Will it be signed into law?

REP. GUTIERREZ:  It must.  It must pass in the Senate.

MR. RUSSERT:  Will it?

REP. GUTIERREZ:  I believe it will, Tim.  I believe it will.  And let me just say to Pat, I’m not for welfare benefits for the undocumented.  That’s not in our bill.  As a matter of fact, they’re ineligible for them.  We all know that.  That’s the law of the land.

Number two, I want to fingerprint them, Pat.  I want to get rid of those immigrants that have come here to cause damage and harm.  But I suggest to you that I want to keep the vast majority of them that do the kinds of labor that sweat and toil and that make America a better place for all of us to live in.

And Latinos are the fastest-growing segment of the electorate.  And let me just share with you, Pat, they’re not hordes to us.  They sit in the pew with me at church on Sunday.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Mm-hmm.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  Their children go to school with my children.  We play in the same playgrounds.  They’re an integral fabric of our community.  The last time I was on this program, I was with Congressman Bonilla and J.D. Hayworth.  They were both here.  They lost their re-elections.  They have espoused the same kinds of political positions on immigration that you have brought here today.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Mm-hmm.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  That’s Arizona...

MR. BUCHANAN:  Mm-hmm.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...lost two seats to Democrats.  The fact is that George Bush was able to win the presidency...

MR. BUCHANAN:  Mm-hmm.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...in great measure because he received 40 percent of the Hispanic votes.

MR. BUCHANAN:  OK.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  But Republicans are going to become a party of the past and irrelevant in national elections...

MR. BUCHANAN:  Right.  Well, what you’re saying...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...and in the Congress of the United States...

MR. BUCHANAN:  What you’re saying is...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...if we don’t change the texture and the tone of this debate and stop blaming immigrants...

MR. BUCHANAN:  Well, I—what you’re saying—yeah, but...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  ...and specifically Latinos for every ill that exists in this society.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Congressman, what you are...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  They are good contributors.  They are faithful Americans.

MR. BUCHANAN:  What you are saying...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  They die in Iraq.  Their names are etched in the Vietnam Memorial, and to make us all be criminals, I just think is wrong, unfair, and it is what is going to cost the Republican Party dearly in the future.

MR. BUCHANAN:  But—you know, if it’s saving this country from a mass invasion which has taken place on our southern border that the president will not stop and your party will not stop, if that means some of us have to go down to political defeat, then so be it.  But we’re going to defend this country, my friend...

REP. GUTIERREZ:  Pat, half of the undocumented that live in the United States did not come through that...

MR. BUCHANAN:  They over—they overstayed their visa.

REP. GUTIERREZ:  They didn’t come through that border.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Are they here illegally?

REP. GUTIERREZ:  They come from Ireland.  They come from India.

MR. BUCHANAN:  Are they here illegally?

REP. GUTIERREZ:  They come from Poland.  They come from all parts of the world...

MR. BUCHANAN:  What do they have in common?  They all have in common that they are illegal.

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