‘Meet the Press’ transcript for June 10, 2007

GEN. POWELL:  They are.  Guantanamo has become a major, major problem for America’s perception as it’s seen, the way the world perceives America.  And if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo not tomorrow, but this afternoon. I’d close it.  And I would not let any of those people go.  I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system. The concern was, “Well, then they’ll have access to lawyers, then they’ll have access to writs of habeas corpus.” So what?  Let them.  Isn’t that what our system’s all about?  And, by the way, America, unfortunately, has two million people in jail all of whom had lawyers and access to writs of habeas corpus. And so we can handle bad people in our system.  And so I would get rid of Guantanamo and I’d get rid of the military commission system and use established procedures in federal law or in the manual for courts-martial.  I would do that because I think it’s a more equitable way to do it and it’s more understandable in constitutional terms.  I would always—I would also do it because every morning I pick up a paper and some authoritarian figure, some person somewhere is using Guantanamo to hide their own misdeeds.  And so, essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open and creating things like the military commission.  We don’t need it, and it’s causing us far damage than any good we get for it.  But, remember what I started in this discussion saying, “Don’t let any of them go.” Put them into a different system, a system that is experienced, that knows how to handle people like this.

MR. RUSSERT:  The only two countries from the original NATO group that do not allow openly gay people to serve in the military are the U.S. and Portugal. Is it a time to do away with “don’t ask, don’t tell” and allow openly gay people to serve in the military?

GEN. POWELL:  I think the, the country has changed in its attitudes quite a bit.  “Don’t ask, don’t tell” was an appropriate response to the situation back in 1993.  And the country certainly has changed.  I don’t know that it has changed so much that this would be the right thing to do now.  My, my, my successor, General Shalikashvili has written a letter about this.

MR. RUSSERT:  Yes.

GEN. POWELL:  He thinks it has changed sufficiently.  But he ends his letter by saying, “We’re in a war right now, and let’s not do this right now.” My own judgment is that gays and lesbians should be allowed to have maximum access to all aspects of society.  In the State Department, we had a very open policy, we had gay ambassadors.  I swore in gay ambassadors with their partners present.  But the military is different.  It is unique.  It exists for one purpose and that’s to apply state violence.  And in the intimate confines of military life, in barracks life, where we tell you who you’re going to live with, where we tell you who you’re going to sleep with, we have to have a different set of rules.  I will not second-guess the commanders who are serving now, just as I didn’t want to be second-guessed 12 or 13 years ago. But I think the country is changing.  We may eventually reach that point.  I’m not sure.

MR. RUSSERT:  Is it inevitable?

GEN. POWELL:  I don’t know if it’s inevitable, but I think it’s certainly moving in that direction.  I just don’t—I’m not convinced we have reached that point yet, and I will let the military commanders and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Congress make the judgment.  Remember, it is the Congress who put this into law.  It was a policy.  And that’s all I wanted it to be was a policy change, but it was Congress in 1993 that made it a matter of law.  And so there are some proposed pieces of legislation up there.  I don’t know if all of the candidates the other night who were saying it ought to be overturned have co-signed that or introduced law.  But it’s a matter of law now, not a matter of military policy.

MR. RUSSERT:  Before you go, Newsweek magazine reports that Senator Barack Obama has sought you out for your advice on foreign policy.  True?

GEN. POWELL:  True.  I’ve met with Senator Obama twice.  I’ve been around this town a long time, and I know everybody who is running for office, and I make myself available to talk about foreign policy matters and military matters with whoever wishes to chat with me.

MR. RUSSERT:  Would you ever come back in the government?

GEN. POWELL:  I would not rule it out.  I’m not at all interested in political life, if you mean elected political life.  That is unchanged.  But I always keep my, my eyes open and my ears open to requests for service.

MR. RUSSERT:  Any endorsements?

GEN. POWELL:  Oh, not yet.  It’s too early.

MR. RUSSERT:  But you’ll support the Republican?

GEN. POWELL:  It’s too early.

MR. RUSSERT:  Would you support an independent?

GEN. POWELL:  I’m going to support, I’m going to support the best person that I can find who will lead this country for the eight years beginning in January 2009.

MR. RUSSERT:  Of any party?

GEN. POWELL:  The best person I can find.

MR. RUSSERT:  General Powell, thank you for your views.

GEN. POWELL:  Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT:  We’ll have more with General Powell in our MEET THE PRESS Take Two Web extra.  Watch it on our Web site this afternoon, mtp.msnbc.com.  Find out what you can do to help mentor young people all across this country.

Coming next, will there be another Clinton in the White House?  With us, the authors of “Her Way:  The Hopes and Ambitions of Hillary Rodham Clinton.” Jeff Gerth and Don Van Natta Jr., the authors.  They are here, next, only on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  Hillary Clinton, her race for the White House, after this brief station break.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  And we’re back with the authors of “Her Way:  The Hopes and Ambitions of Hillary Rodham Clinton.” Welcome both.

MR. DON VAN NATTA JR.:  Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let’s go right to it.  One of the important parts of this book is this notion of a grand design by Bill and Hillary Clinton to each serve two terms in the White House.  This is the way you write about it:  “By the summer of 1993, the ways of Washington had not dissuaded Bill or Hillary.  According to one of their closest friends, Taylor Branch, they still planned two terms in the White House for Bill, and, later, two for Hillary.” You know what’s happened now, this is The Washington Post reporting on this:  “The authors report that the Clintons updated their plan after the 1992 election, determining that Hillary would run when Bill left office.  They cite two people,” former Times reporter “Ann Crittenden and John Henry, who said Taylor Branch, the Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and close Clinton friend, told them” “the Clintons ‘still planned two terms in the White House for Bill and, later, two for Hillary.’ Contacted last night, Branch said that ‘the story is preposterous.’” “‘I never heard either Clinton talk about a “plan” for them’” both to “‘become president.’” What do you say?

MR. JEFF GERTH:  Well, Tim, I interviewed Ann Crittenden and John Henry, and they both separately recalled a barbecue dinner in Aspen, Colorado, in 1993 at a rodeo with Taylor Branch, and they were remembering him saying that he’d just come from the White House—he’s a historian, and he’d begun talking with President Clinton, and he told them about—that Bill Clinton was going to serve eight years and then, at some point, Hillary was going to do eight years in the White House.  I later contacted Taylor Branch, asked him if he remembered the dinner in Aspen.  He said he didn’t, but he said he wouldn’t deny it.  Then he later, when the book came out, said it was preposterous.  I think I would add, Taylor is a respected historian, but he himself has admitted that when it comes to Bill Clinton he can’t be objective.  So there are two people—you know, Ann Crittenden’s an award-winning journalist—two people who say yea, and Taylor Branch says nay.  I mean, I think more interestingly and more surprisingly, the ambition of the Clintons going back to when they were in their 20s, and the 20 year project that Leon Panetta remembers Bill Clinton describing to him.

MR. RUSSERT:  Well, Panetta said Bill Clinton running for president, but it was never about Hillary.

MR. GERTH:  No.  But, but Bill Clinton, of course, at that point in the ‘70s, even before they married, was talking about Hillary Clinton, that she could be president, but she had to subordinate her plans, of course, to his, coming to Arkansas.

MR. RUSSERT:  Phillipe Reines, the press secretary for Senator Clinton, offered this statement to MEET THE PRESS:  “I have an on-the-record, named source extremely familiar with the facts of her life—and I’m telling you it’s absurd, bogus, nonsensical, conjured.  Take your pick.” His source obviously being Senator Clinton.

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